How to Prepare for Death: A Buddhist Scholar on the Bardo | with Dr. John Campbell [video]

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Welcome.

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I'm Harmony Slater, your host of the Finding Harmony podcast.

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Over the past 20 years, I've taught thousands of yoga teachers and students to explore the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, using mind body practices to heal, awaken, and manifest their dreams from the inside out.

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This podcast is a sanctuary for those feeling overwhelmed by life's challenges.

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Are you ready to jump? In and discover how these challenges aren't actually in the way, but are the way to finding harmony.

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Let's invite the magic back in.

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Well, hello.

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Today we have someone very special for you.

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Our guest today, has been on our podcast two times before.

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Our first episode with Dr.

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John Campbell was called Chasing Dragons, and the second episode was called JC, Our Own Personal Jesus? So you can go back and, listen about John's story around addiction, Buddhism, compassion, and, how he got to where he is in his life, as well as, the second episode was more about modern yoga, and projection, and guru culture, and our tendency to place teachers on pedestals.

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But today, we are going into a whole new direction.

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So we're not talking about the early Mysore days, and we're not talking about his story in particular, except this is maybe a, kind of a continuation of his story.

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John Campbell, Dr.

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John Campbell, our beautiful, beautiful soul brother, is just a fascinating human because not only is he a certified Ashtanga yoga teacher, which means he spent a lot of time in Mysore, India under the, teachings of Sri K Pattabhi Jois, becoming a certified teacher, finishing fourth series in Mysore, India.

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And if you're an Ashtanga yoga practitioner, you know how hard that is, how long you need to be in India, how many trips that is, how hard you have to kind of work, what you're giving up.

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But he's also a scholar, a PhD of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism.

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He holds a PhD in religion from Columbia University, and was a professor and the head of a department at, the University of Virginia at one point, and he helped establish the Contemplative Science Center at UVA.

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And he's also worked extensively with Dr.

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Robert Thurman, who many of you probably know and love, who is also a scholar and teacher of Indo-Tibetan Buddhism, and a beloved friend of the Dalai Lama.

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So John has worked on translating Sanskrit and Tibetan texts, and he really teaches yoga from his depth, and his heart, and his experience in both of these traditions, both the Ashtanga yoga lineage and culture, but also with his heart that is truly of, Buddhist- Origin maybe.

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Perhaps a past life.

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And so today we're talking about the death process, the Bardo, the psychedelic experience, healing through psychedelics, healing through, moving our consciousness through different realms that are spoken about in the Tibetan Book of the Dead that get classified within this Bardo of transition.

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And how when we're moving through periods of transition or even just living in this world that is constantly in flux, how we might identify and acknowledge and move through stages of development that are mirrored in our experience or the experience that the Tibetan Book of the Dead writes about or speaks about in the Tibetan tradition of the soul moving out of the body and into a new body, this life after death process.

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So I know you're gonna love this conversation because who doesn't love a good philosophical, psychedelic, political, yoga, conversation? And you'll get to hear all about how John is teaching and practicing now Vajra Yoga, which is, very similar to Ashtanga Yoga, but kinda weaving together the influences that he has learnt, through Buddhist traditions and Buddhist practices, and how you can learn more about what he's doing and working with him in New York City.

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If you're ever there, be sure to look him up.

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A quick note before we jump into this conversation with Dr.

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John Campbell All of us, especially John had a very deep connection to Dr.

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Robert Thurman.

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Russell and I had the honor and privilege of studying with him separately at different times in our lives, in different rooms, and he is someone who has always been very close to our hearts.

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And of course, for our dear friend John Campbell, he was a mentor and a friend.

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This conversation was recorded just a few days before Dr.

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Robert Thurman passed away on June 16th, and it came as a shock to all of us that he would leave his body so soon.

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He was dearly loved, and he will be deeply missed Hi, welcome to the Finding Harmony podcast.

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This is your host, Harmony Slater.

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Hi.

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I'm your co-host, Mr.

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Harmony Slater.

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We were just talking to our friend John about the circumstances in which I, had an existential crisis or a spiritually emergent crisis and took to Tibetan Buddhism.

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John, you were just telling us about smoking toad venom.

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I was.

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So I have to tell you a little bit about that.

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You know, I'm a neophyte in, in Absolutely, uh, I've actually experienced it, twice myself.

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But I was gonna tell you that just the circumstances around that, especially the first time, and it very much was like as I've heard, you know, Ayahuasca ceremonies, uh, described.

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Of course, the reverence for the substance and the molecule and its potential is, is so foregrounded.

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And this, makes me think a lot about, Tibetan Buddhism, but we can, we can get there.

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the beauty of this particular, event, and it really was an event, it was like 24 hours.

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Under the sort of guidance, care of, a shaman from Mexico, That's what they referred to him as.

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...That's

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how he understands himself.

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So it wasn't in a particular, you know, uh, tribal affiliation or anything, but a shaman.

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He does that work.

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Um, and assisted by a couple of my friends.

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throughout the course of this 24 hours, First everybody, prepared I think for at least a week, maybe two beforehand, you know, with certain dietary restriction and- ...um,

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mm, yeah.

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and then show up.

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I didn't know anybody else who was attending, you know, except for my, of course my wife was with me, and so Claude was there too.

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And we're, you're dressed in white.

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And the ceremony began with administering something called kambô, which is actually- ...toad

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venom, right? And the whole thing was, you know, you're explained to you.

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You know, you're gonna drink a lot of water you're gonna get violently ill, which I'm terrified of.

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I'm like you, Russell.

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I'm like such a lightwe- I mean, I'm just like of the, all the things, you know, and vomiting is like I'll do anything to avoid Yeah is the ultimate discomfort, right? And Mm-hmm I'm a sucker for comfort.

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And, uh, so it, it went down exactly as advertised.

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You're drinking huge amounts of water, you know, a couple of l- liters.

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And very quickly- ...th-

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this is a very, very...

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It's amazing, you know, the pharmacopoeia, just that side of it, you know, if that's the right word, came around and nicked you on the spine, uh, with a...

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I guess it was, like, a sharp, I don't even know what it was, bit of razor blade maybe, and administered this paste along the, the spine.

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Oh, fantastic.

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I've seen Oh, fantastic.

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I've seen that in Hamilton Morris's, documentaries.

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That's a very interesting way to do it.

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We ......simply

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smoked the 5-MeO and, No, this wasn't the 5-MeO.

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Oh, that was the kambô that they did that.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I have, I actually, we did see that in our ayahuasca ceremony as well.

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Yeah.

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A little nick and then application, little nick, application, and then you just start, you know, at a certain point, you're just first just retching, and then it's pouring out of you.

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and they encourage you to keep drinking water.

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It keeps pouring out of you.

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And- it, you know, the whole process is less than two hours, but maybe a full hour, and, you know, you are clean.

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You know? If you're ever gonna be clean, you are clean.

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And there starts to be this, uh, amaz- you know, Now that I'm talking about it, I'm really curious to know.

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At first it's really, you get to a point where it's just pure water that's pouring.

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out.

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Mm-hmm.

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But then it starts to come up with something deeper, you know? Something just, uh, I don't know if that means it's bile.

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I don't know, but it's- some kind of sediment.

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sediment.

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They might describe it, in shamanic circles as la flema.

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And la flema is coming up to kind of give you, power.

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I've heard it described that way in Stephan Beyer's book, ...Singing

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to the Plants, that the, that this is where, this is the, the shaman's origin of his spiritual power, is the bringing up of this phlegm.

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And then you wanna maintain that phlegm by taking the medicine two or three times a week, and then you maintain your ability to, uh, speak to plants and, and do the healing Right.

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Right.

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And I'd heard that some people, yeah, do, do this.

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This as their main, you know, practice, but- Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm after sort of a brief rest, again, you know, maybe an hour of rest, this small group re-gathered.

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And One by one, were in a circle, and then one by one in the center of the circle one person would be helped to smoke the, the bufo.

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C- Can I just ask was it Bufo or was it the synthetic 5-MeO? It was Bufo.

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Okay Yeah, it was definitely bufo.

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Um And that also makes me wonder how, you know, they would have known how to dose it and so forth.

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This can't be very precise, but- It is, for a big dose, you would do six milligrams.

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They crystallize it, and then they measure it out they crystallize it And It seemed it was like this little, like, pasty crystal something- ...that

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you know, you know- ...you

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ingest it.

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And then, were, y- you were guided in some prayers then prayers would be followed by, you know, smoking.

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And, then that, experience is so completely ego dissolving.

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I mean, I think that's the only way you can, you can refer to it as, you know.

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and then that- itself is, I mean, personally experienced it, to be honest, like, as very terrifying, you know? And I went down into it in a very terrified place, which then, I don't know, it was spatial as well.

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I could not see, you know.

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There was no visual contact at that point.

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But then I started to, you know, it started to level out.

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I think the, the sort of descent, the sense of settling- Mm-hmm.

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um, kind of s- it tapered off a little bit, into a point where, I was able to tune into the, um, I can hear it now, like the singing.

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There was a lot of, uh, singing, But was it celestial singing you were hearing, or was it singing that they were singing in the room? they were singing in the room.

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Yeah, those are, those are ikaros ...that

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they're, that they're presenting to c- and that shepherds the experience for you Yeah, And that, part, you know, just made me...

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You know, I can see the, the faces looking down at me 'cause they're very concerned, you know.

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I mean, I, I saw everybody else going through this, and I, I was deeply concerned for some.

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You know, thank God I didn't have to go last, you know? I didn't have to watch everybody.

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Um, but ......coming

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out of that, I felt a great sense of, I, I mean, I-- it's indescribable.

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I guess very, a bit fragile but deeply connected.

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and then watching, you know, these other people go through was, it was just so amazing to see the range of experiences.

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You know, there were, there were people who, who really looked like they were struggling to, just expel some kinda like deep hatred, deep- Deep pain.

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So that was just, uh, you know, like I said, indescribable.

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But then later in the evening, then again after the rest, then there was, uh, the conclusion of the ceremony was a big dose of psilocybin.

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Oh And- Oh.

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And, And this integration period, and I have to say, you know, that's like, my one kind of contribution to this, 'cause it was, I guess kind of unique.

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You know, first of all, you have to have twenty-four hours that you can block off for this.

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But that integration period of a powerful, strong, you know, four, you know, four grams or, you know- mushrooms or something, where you are having a very- Yeah, like a strong, heavy- ...dose

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of, of, of psilocybin.

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With, with a lot of music, and just settling in for the evening, and that was by far the most beautiful psychedelic, experience I've ever had, and it was very beautiful to see my, my wife, and she was very freed by that.

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...you

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know, it was coming out of a pretty difficult time in, in my life as well.

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a lot of struggle, A-and just, plain old, plain old addiction, you know? Plain old, .........good

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old-fashioned alcoholism.

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I don't know.

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Uh, you know, that, that was still a, a, a little while ago.

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I had one smaller experience like that, with bufo since then.

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But I think what's so amazing about it, and I don't recommend this is not a recommendation.

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Like, that's the last thing I, I guess...

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I don't know.

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Maybe ...you

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feel differently.

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I feel like it's very, very...

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It's so, It, it, it just seems like it could really be dangerous to somebody, you know? I mean, ......I

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know a lot of people are much more upbeat about, you know, it's fine.

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You know, these these substances will take care of you.

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But the problem is there has to be the follow-up.

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There has to be this integration.

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And I felt that that integration for me was the most, supportive and essential part of it.

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It's really the essential part of it.

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You know, it's almost like putting you back together, and it reminded me immediately of, I'd like to hear more what you say, but reminded me immediately of sort of the principal idea of, in Vajrayana of using The death process as a a a kind of a template for dissolving ego- but then reestablishing identity on the basis of wisdom and compassion.

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And then if you don't choose to do that, you know, you're gonna get what you get, you know? You know, you're gonna get- ...you're

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gonna merge into the world.

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And I think a small version of that is that it's like we always are getting what we put in.

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We've always getting.

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We open our eyes.

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We're, you know, we don't think we're collaborating or contributing, We're just making it up as we're making our worlds.

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So that's probably the biggest powerful thing, you know, comes through that whole psychedelic how much you are, i- involved the process of world-making, you know? I, I, I know Harmony has something that she wants to say.

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I, I just wanted to, to jump in that one of the things that we're learning about, in our studies, like with, with, Hamilton Morris's videos is, is it's really interesting and the, and what you've described is a really beautifully set up, organization.

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one of the things that happens and why it's so effective for addiction and healing is that in your brain, the serotonin 2A receptors are taking in the psychedelic as a, faux serotonin.

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instead of So instead of like with MDMA MDMA where you deplete and produce an enormous amount of serotonin in a short while, this floods your system with an, a, Imitation serotonin an imitation or, a large group of mimicked serotonin ......that

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leaves you flooded ......with

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love ......versus,

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uh, dopamine which floods you with a sense of, self.

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It's like, "Oh, I just won something.

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I just won something.

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Right.

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Right love for all beings, and it can...

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And that's, you know, one of the, the the enormous...

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Uh, I think with that enormity of love is helping break out of a very kind of selfish, cycle.

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Well, also developing self-compassion for yourself, like love for self, because ultimately we can't- Yeah out of...

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I mean, addiction, the, the cycle of addiction is you use, you feel shame for using.

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That creates ......self-loathing,

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which creates more using, and then you're stuck in that cycle, and the only way to break that is through self-compassion, love, forgiveness, and all of those beautiful qualities that you were just talking about.

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I That's where I, I ended up with that feeling of more, a willingness to, engage in, in self-acceptance and self-love.

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And, and since then, that's been-- I wish I could say like, "Oh, that was perfect from that time on.

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I was like completely on board with self-love and, and, uh- you Just start working.

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Yeah.

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Then it's like basically just to kind of orient you in this particular way.

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And, I still find that to be such a difficult, uh, part of being the person in the world that I want to be is still s- you know, basically the lack of self-love, which The part of your mind is telling you that is the one thing that you, do not deserve because whatever, Even if you're well-intentioned, you know, it's like you're stuck in this self-referential, trap.

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and I've had some very wonderful teachers, um, in the last few years, namely, Robert Thurman, who.

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I've been just very lucky to spend loads of time with him in the last like five years.

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and the Tibetan, physician, Dr.

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Nida Chenagtsang, who is also a, practitioner of traditional Tibetan medicine.

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uh, But he's also, you know, a, a Vajrayana teacher In the tradition that he's part of.

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It's very similar...

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It's not exactly the Nyingma tradition, but it, quite overlapped with it.

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And his a pretty consistent message is seeking, you know, the, All realizations ultimately have to have this foundation of self-love So m-many of our practices then start to become self-care, you know? I, I actually, speaking of, know, introducing woo into the conversation is that I mean, I just, just didn't know until recently how incredibly hostile I am to the idea, for, either dismissive when other people, you are engage in self-care and self-love, and actually hostile it in myself.

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Mm You painful to think about Wow.

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Really.

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Wow I don't know, I don't know why.

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I didn't get hugged know? Yeah, these patterns are, are deep and sometimes lifetime patterns and, and maybe- past lifetime patterns No doubt.

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No doubt.

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Yeah.

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get told to get up off the floor, you know, and y- ......your

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knee gets scraped.

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You, you get told that enough times and it's like, "Well, I'm being weak right now being- Right.

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Absolutely.

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bringing up Dr.

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Nida is interesting.

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I don't know if you've heard of him, but He's very aware that his students, of course, coming from this world where now, psychedelics have penetrated into all aspects of culture and, and probably not always in a helpful way.

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But I completely agree with you.

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There's no issue of it being a gateway drug or that it's at all addictive.

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Because you give somebody ten hours of an LSD trip, it's just simply not something that they're gonna race out and do again.

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If they are- ...mentally

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unbalanced, they may engage in some kind of self-destructive behavior, and that, know, it's just gonna happen.

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and there's a concern for, 18 to 19, 25-year-old men who, may be predisposed to schizophrenia.

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...a

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psychedelic experience can unlock it, but then so could any stressful experience, Yeah, totally.

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Any stressful experience.

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to bring it around to, yoga talk, it- it's obvious to me why, Ashtanga yoga, which I encountered like you both, in this, very pure form.

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And I say pure meaning that there was no real commercial, com- that ......yoga

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wasn't really like a big com- commercial thing.

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And you always are so receptive to something according to its set and setting.

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And the set and setting of being in India, you, you just felt so completely connected, I think, through, the way that our teacher at the time himself was just deeply connected to a world Gave me, like, the structure in which to, start to experience and inhabit this energetic body.

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and for me, the, limitation of it always, from very early on was that because of, I wasn't so deeply connected, say, to like the Brahman tradition, although I was...

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I did learn Sanskrit and Maybe I just didn't feel like it needed any, belief system for it to go within.

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That seemed to be part of the, the project.

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It was like you need to open up to, a meaningful structure of, of purpose that you find and it's appropriate for you.

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and I don't know.

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I had all sorts of ideas about why, Jois did or didn't talk about that at the time.

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Partly that he couldn't, partly that it was just like, oh yeah, you just do this thing and it automatically straightens you out.

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but meanwhile, I was more interested in going and studying with the Buddhists, so, with the psychedelic experience, one thing that's come into, my awareness is, like this, vast amount of internal energy that gets released when you ......open

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up into this sort of, transcendental psychedelic state.

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Mm-hmm.

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And that inner energy is within you, right? It's not, ...like

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the psilocybin or DMT isn't giving you that energy.

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It's actually just opening up something that's already existing within you.

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Mm.

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But, but serotonin is an energizer.

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Yeah, but it's helping to unlock something that's within your system already.

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Mm.

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It's not like you're increasing your energy through the substance.

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It's just, like opening the door so that- ...your

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innate intelligence starts to like open up, and- and that, that energy unleashes in your body in some way.

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in your mind, and that creates certain effects.

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Neuroplasticity and all of that.

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And I'm, I'm curious, because one thing that sort of, like speaking to, it's not an experience for everyone, but one thing that I've been thinking about with the yoga practices is that in my understanding, the asana, the only real benefit of doing asana ......is

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to create, and I think Hatha yoga also points to this as well, and since you're a scholar in these things you can talk about it, and Buddhism ...also

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does too, is to create the diamond body.

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And what is a ...diamond

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...but

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like a, an unbreakable, vessel, like something that is ......strong,

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the strongest, substance we know of, right? And so to create a vessel that is strong, that can hold the energy that, like that unlocking of the energy, and what is kundalini but unlocking that innate internal energy within your system.

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And if you don't have a vessel that can contain it, well, things maybe can go a little haywire.

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Sure.

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But I feel like the asana practice is really just about creating a strong vessel to unlock this energy.

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And the thing that I've been curious about is I feel like- So people in our Ashtanga tradition are just like obsessed with creating this vessel and are never unlocking the energy.

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And part of me ......feels

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like that's what attracted you to Buddhism, because Buddhism also talks a lot about like doing the chanting and the meditation and gives you ......other

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practices that help to unlock this energy.

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Because asana itself, in my mind and understanding and experience, isn't gonna do that yeah, I agree.

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.it's

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not really well, known, but it's pretty good sort of a model or speculation historically about how you get the development asana practices and the use of the body an essential tool And then that gets hybridized with the tantric traditions.

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Tantric traditions of experiencing the deity directly in some way.

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But that those are actually somehow maybe different strands of, practice and people...

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I mean, the traditional biographies of the Buddha, which aren't contemporaneous maybe, but they're, two thousand years old.

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They're, they're, they were maybe a few hundred years after the passing of the Buddha.

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They describe, all of them in his spiritual journey w- involved mortification of the body, and that that was exactly what, he was being told to do, but there the emphasis is really on transcending the body- because the body was like the key suspect in, in the essential problem of samsara.

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This is the basis on which you feel, attachment and aversion, and craving.

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And having practiced that, he w- he very quickly dispenses with that, right? As being, al-although what's really interesting in the stories if you do a little more narrative analysis is that in all of the stories, right, he gets to this near-death point, Right? Where his body is just about to, to, you know that expression, give up the ghost.

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He's skin and bones.

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He's like, you're there- They don't, they don't really represent this so much in the T-Tibetan, but in Southeast Asia, you can find these amazing statues of that, right? And he's withered.

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withered.

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withered.

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And then the key moment in the narrative, on one level, is where, due to the intervention, which is completely, What's the right word? it w- just out of, just happens to happen, It's just part of the story is the- girl who's going to propitiate a nāga, to give offerings for fertility, right? And she's like, "Oh, here is the nāga," like, it's this, like, withered husk of a being, like, next to the tree, and she makes her offering.

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This is the, the Sujata, and makes the offering of a, porridge, like milk, which he then recognizes, with his final-- Because it says that in the story, and this again, I'm like hybrid.

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I, I'm, I'm, I'm making a composite of different stories.

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But the story is that he's, he's exhausted the body, but he also is thinking, "I'm gonna go for it.

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I'm gonna renounce air."

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Oh.

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That's gonna be it.

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I'm gonna, He's a true breatharian, and now he's going the full, ...like

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I'm gonna- Even eliminate breaths, you, keep sort of whittling away at everything- that you ......need.

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And, you know, note in, in our tradition, one of our traditions, the Krishnamacharya tradition, it's always sort of boasted these, amazing things that somebody could do, like stop their heart.

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And I always would wonder about that.

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Like, okay, interesting.

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Why? why would you wanna do that? But anyway, so you know, she makes this offering.

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He then takes this sustenance, and it allows his mind to come back online, and then he goes through this, process that we now still is the, I guess, the template for, of understanding in meditation, how it's understood, at least in the Buddhist tradition, was he first establishes the calm abiding, complete single-pointed, the...

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Initially, based upon his breath, brings his attention to respiration.

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The mind settles and then goes into full single-pointed concentration.

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With which, that's not the end of the story.

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With which he then examines and thoroughly- searches for the self, for this supposed self.

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So this idea that I have when I close my eyes or when I experience something, that there is, like, I'm located somewhere, maybe behind my eyes or in my head.

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There's some me that is having these experiences, right? And that arising.

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And That's where I think the, the diamond first becomes the crucial, metaphor.

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Because you know, the word diamond's so important here, vajra.

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But earlier, the, the early tradition, the ancient tradition, which then, comes in to become part of the, the sacrifice is that vajra is a weapon.

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It's a symbol of power.

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It's Indra's powerful weapon.

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And then it gets appropriated as a symbol of this powerful, diamond drill with which you drill down and define the thing that if it were there, and I'm gonna like...

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This is the balls-out approach.

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I am going to find it.

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If it is there, I'll find it.

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But then also accepting that if you do not find it, if you, if you can prove an absence to yourself or you cannot ...affirm-

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...a

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presence, then you are left with the reality that you are not in- unrelated, self in, intrinsically static, with which you relate to everything.

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That instead you are a dependently existing a relative being.

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your existence is entirely interdependent.

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Mm-hmm.

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So presumably they don't go into detail in, in, in the biographies because they just say, he goes through the, the three watches of the night, where first he sees all his past lives.

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So this insight first into selflessness allows him to have a perspective on this interconnected continuity of mind- which then gets elaborated much more in, especially Mahayana tradition where it's made...

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Well, in actually all the traditions, the famous stories of feeding the body to the hungry tigress or, Oh, yeah, the, the early incarnation of the Buddha Yulia incar-incarnations, which then eventually gets developed into this idea that the Buddha in his past lives himself, ta-takes on the commitment, and those tiger cubs became his first students Yeah.

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Mm.

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Yeah.

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It's amazing, amazing.

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Second watch of the night, he's able to then view all of, samsara and all everyone's lives.

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He's, this sort of omniscience, whatever that means.

315
00:32:17,877.1818698 --> 00:32:24,772.4218698
And then third watch he's awake And, you know, he, he touches the ground and, because he's challenged by, uh...

316
00:32:24,924.8037746 --> 00:32:29,77.1837746
You know that, that gesture, the bhu- the bhum- they call it bhumi sparsha mudra.

317
00:32:29,77.184727 --> 00:32:31,639.0885365
So when you see the Buddha sometimes he's like, this.

318
00:32:32,67.6571079 --> 00:32:32,858.1361555
Sometimes he's touching.

319
00:32:33,48.6113936 --> 00:32:34,97.8163143
and the touching- ...is,

320
00:32:34,174.0058381 --> 00:32:38,50.1972666
what they call bhumi sparsha or touching the earth.

321
00:32:38,354.9572666 --> 00:32:42,339.0861555
And the earth itself, affirms, this awakening and this this enlightenment.

322
00:32:42,926.3896476 --> 00:32:48,250.1991714
and then what I love, too, in all these stories is that he's like, "That is so cool.

323
00:32:48,821.6267904 --> 00:32:50,754.9601238
Nobody is gonna believe me."

324
00:32:51,221.6267904 --> 00:32:54,221.6277428
And so he remains there for 47 days.

325
00:32:54,307.3429809 --> 00:32:56,21.6277428
He's savoring his enlightenment.

326
00:32:56,850.198219 --> 00:33:01,478.7629809
and it's only because Brahma himself comes and, like begs him and petitions him.

327
00:33:01,478.7629809 --> 00:33:03,707.3372666
He says, like, "Really, it will be worthwhile.

328
00:33:03,716.8639333 --> 00:33:05,202.5725047
Please, you have to come and teach."

329
00:33:05,526.3810762 --> 00:33:07,116.8544095
So he's like, "Okay, that sounds good."

330
00:33:07,116.8553619 --> 00:33:10,812.0944095
He first goes and teaches his mother, who is in Heaven, and then he comes and...

331
00:33:10,821.6172666 --> 00:33:31,653.8210762
So the whole thing seems to me like, all these elements of these stories, So I was ju- It's not exclusive to the Buddhist tradition, these amazing stories of how the realization of one's sort of imposter status, that you are absolutely not anything that you thought you were.

332
00:33:31,663.3448857 --> 00:33:32,834.7715523
And so all this work- ...you're

333
00:33:32,872.8648857 --> 00:33:37,320.4839333
putting into being that person seems to be like ridiculous at a certain point.

334
00:33:37,358.5820285 --> 00:33:44,158.5829809
But then that is this, this total sort of breakdown and, dismantling, i.e.

335
00:33:44,510.9629809 --> 00:33:47,606.1972666
5-MeO, strip it down.

336
00:33:48,491.9086952 --> 00:33:56,196.6658381
And if then you're rising into a, a new potential, Which the key there has to be compassion.

337
00:33:56,501.438219 --> 00:33:57,253.8153619
It has to be.

338
00:33:58,315.7167904 --> 00:34:01,44.2925047
Cause without that, you are left...

339
00:34:01,701.4306 --> 00:34:04,863.3334571
I'm not even sure, that's the part y- where, you know, we were starting...

340
00:34:05,110.9563143 --> 00:34:07,958.5810762
You, you were talking about, like asking about vajra body.

341
00:34:08,530.0067904 --> 00:34:08,958.578219
Yeah.

342
00:34:09,168.0934571 --> 00:34:15,539.5229809
It looks like there are traditions that really did believe if you could, like make the body indestructible, you could become immortal.

343
00:34:16,15.7153619 --> 00:34:36,377.6286952
So Hatha Yoga was about creating, there's this, this, This friend and scholar in England, uh, James Mallinson, and Jim has studied, like, these early Hatha Yoga texts, and It's really clear that some of the ideas about using the body to access this vajra body reality was something that probably started in the Buddhist tradition- and then was imported.

344
00:34:36,739.5334571 --> 00:34:55,317.3093301
So yeah, like I have such limitless, like endless, endless, gratitude for what the uh, Ashtanga- experience has, provided me because by the time I started, like encountering ideas, starting to learn about Tibetan Buddhism in particular, I was like, yeah, that, that checks out."

345
00:34:55,345.8798063 --> 00:35:06,869.6817111
the idea that, in, in a sense, you know, having the stability to just even s-sit comfortably not be distracted is kind of an important prerequisite.

346
00:35:06,907.7836158 --> 00:35:11,222.0626635
But I guess that's my last word on it is that it turns out it's a prerequisite.

347
00:35:12,311.5912349 --> 00:35:16,340.1626635
Yeah, it turns out, in fact, it's super helpful.

348
00:35:16,449.3675841 --> 00:35:17,36.0356793
Yeah.

349
00:35:17,270.3213936 --> 00:35:22,800.3223936
I wanna, I wanna bring the conversation deeply into this tradition, the Tibetan tradition.

350
00:35:22,810.3223936 --> 00:35:27,340.3233936
Maybe it's informed by the Bon tradition, and these notions of the Bardo.

351
00:35:27,740.3233936 --> 00:35:34,590.3223936
If I could just set you up with the context for the question, as briefly as I can, is ...I

352
00:35:34,590.3223936 --> 00:35:48,880.3193936
started Ashtanga yoga because I realized that I was profoundly unsteady by, a, a, I'm now, adverse to calling it a bad trip, like a King Kong bad trip from when I was a teenager.

353
00:35:49,140.3193936 --> 00:35:52,280.3203936
I'm now looking at it as a profound learning ......that

354
00:35:52,290.3203936 --> 00:35:53,100.3183936
happened to me.

355
00:35:53,910.3193936 --> 00:35:59,970.3213936
But I went into Ashtanga yoga after that to heal, to find steadiness, and to somehow ......get

356
00:35:59,970.3213936 --> 00:36:02,720.3193936
my mind right, to cleanse my mind.

357
00:36:02,730.3193936 --> 00:36:07,60.3193936
I was just absolutely terrified of the possibility of my mind.

358
00:36:07,410.3233936 --> 00:36:12,770.3223936
I was realizing that any sort of, THC would bring me right back into it, Right.

359
00:36:12,970.3233936 --> 00:36:29,763.636727
and I was terrified of it, for about 30 years of Ashtanga yoga practice until I did the ayahuasca, uh, a few months back and realized what it was that I had been terrified of- I was terrified of, of dying.

360
00:36:31,309.642727 --> 00:36:45,509.642727
And I had relived the conditions of my, This is a bit but I had- relived the conditions of being high on cocaine in the womb, of being terrified, locked in a cage, ......held

361
00:36:45,519.642727 --> 00:36:47,529.642727
by the throat, and hyperactive, ......and

362
00:36:47,539.641727 --> 00:36:49,299.642727
being totally freaked out.

363
00:36:49,299.642727 --> 00:36:54,809.641727
And suddenly I, I saw, "Oh, that's what I was being shown by- psychedelics.

364
00:36:55,899.642727 --> 00:37:23,539.640727
I came away from that realizing that I wanted to understand how to practice for the Bardo, 'cause I suddenly realized that, like Sogyal Rinpoche said in The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, that death is molten chaos, and you're gonna have to be strong, and you're gonna have to steady your mind in the process of death.

365
00:37:23,849.641727 --> 00:37:27,569.642727
And suddenly it was like, "Oh, I thought death was gonna be cool.

366
00:37:28,47.642727 --> 00:37:28,663.642727
Yeah.

367
00:37:28,899.642727 --> 00:37:31,799.640727
it was gonna be like I'm gonna get pulled into the light, everything's gonna be cool.

368
00:37:31,799.642727 --> 00:37:34,279.641727
I'm an ethical, nice person, everything's gonna be fine.

369
00:37:34,279.641727 --> 00:37:42,979.644727
I'm not gonna have a difficult time with the wrathful asuras showing me just how fucking terrifying everything can be for an infinite amount of time."

370
00:37:42,979.644727 --> 00:37:44,719.644727
"'Cause when you're dead there is no time."

371
00:37:45,141.643727 --> 00:37:45,621.643727
Right.

372
00:37:45,769.639727 --> 00:37:46,749.640727
This could be infinite.

373
00:37:46,779.641727 --> 00:37:50,79.631727
I can't do, 15 minutes on DMT.

374
00:37:50,329.632727 --> 00:37:55,135.633727
and you're telling me I'm gonna be in DMT infinitely? Oh, that's not cool."

375
00:37:55,675.631727 --> 00:38:01,875.635727
So now I'm very interested in this Bardo experience, John, and anything you can help us with.

376
00:38:02,428.3599997 --> 00:38:05,898.3599997
first question I would ask, do you think...

377
00:38:06,498.3589997 --> 00:38:11,128.3519997
This seems implausible to me that Gautama, What's his name? Siddhartha.

378
00:38:11,178.3519997 --> 00:38:17,118.3549997
Gautama Siddhartha was the first one that human beings offered to liberation.

379
00:38:17,388.3509997 --> 00:38:19,78.3559997
It seems like maybe he was just the...

380
00:38:19,838.3559997 --> 00:38:29,918.3529997
He, he constructed a, a template, but come on, we're like a, we're like 100, 300,000, a million years into this as homo sapiens.

381
00:38:30,528.3509997 --> 00:38:31,502.3559997
He's not the first.

382
00:38:32,410.4696375 --> 00:38:34,520.4696375
Since you asked the question, I'll give it a try.

383
00:38:34,540.4696375 --> 00:38:42,170.4596375
Uh, I mean, the last week, I was with an incredible group of, teachers at Menla, this retreat center.

384
00:38:42,408.4556375 --> 00:38:43,462.4556375
Bob was there.

385
00:38:44,248.4556375 --> 00:39:01,103.0399538
uh, the wonderful, uh, Krishna Das was there with band and, and sharing his experiences with, with, Neem Karoli Baba and wonderful Maharaji and, and Nina Rao was there, and Chandre Easton, who is a wonderful teacher, more the Nyingma tradition.

386
00:39:01,423.0409538 --> 00:39:09,823.0409538
and who I'm leaving out? and Michelle Lowe made an, an appearance, which is extraordinary she's a wonderful, teacher in these traditions.

387
00:39:10,103.0399538 --> 00:39:16,483.0409538
similar to me, with a lot of background in, I guess we'll call it modern Ashtanga yoga, postural yoga.

388
00:39:16,503.0389538 --> 00:39:19,813.0409538
She was Richard and Mary's student, I think, mostly.

389
00:39:20,183.0389538 --> 00:39:27,763.0419538
But then became more, far more, involved in, in Tibetan yoga systems So this is cast of characters.

390
00:39:27,783.0449538 --> 00:39:32,533.0499538
But not to l-leave out, relevant here is, Dr.

391
00:39:32,533.0499538 --> 00:39:33,553.0499538
Ravi Svoboda.

392
00:39:33,753.0499538 --> 00:39:35,763.0529538
And, and, and, and, Dr.

393
00:39:35,763.0529538 --> 00:39:45,49.7216205
Ravi is like im- well, he's just the most, skilled speaker, He's obviously very brilliant, but he's just an incredible, uh, raconteur.

394
00:39:45,369.7236205 --> 00:40:02,899.7266205
But more than that, You know, the thing that I think it, makes me love India so much, that was probably the, the biggest takeaway is, what an incredible gift, to have this experience of India because it is a place where stories are still alive.

395
00:40:02,929.7266205 --> 00:40:05,50.3992872
You know? They, like, truly live.

396
00:40:05,926.3952872 --> 00:40:12,736.3952872
the, the amount of devotion that goes and it, it has a super dark side too don't get me wrong.

397
00:40:13,176.3952872 --> 00:40:19,589.7266205
That, stories about, about caste and, hierarchy and- Mm-hmm certainly patriarchy.

398
00:40:19,743.7316205 --> 00:40:25,26.3982872
The Ravi Svoboda point is that he is such a master of stories Mm-hmm.

399
00:40:25,120.3992872 --> 00:40:26,280.3972872
the ancient India.

400
00:40:27,390.3952872 --> 00:40:30,890.3962872
Of course, practically a master of Jyotish and Ayurveda.

401
00:40:31,140.3972872 --> 00:40:48,60.3962872
But it's the, the way that he talks about ancient, ancient India, which then goes back well before Gautama, the current Buddha, is that there's no question in his presentation that there were such enlightened beings that like The rishis were able to...

402
00:40:48,70.3952872 --> 00:40:55,820.3862872
Although, you know, what we saw historically created as this fire sacrifice, which is a very, very simple arrangement, by the way.

403
00:40:55,820.3912872 --> 00:41:05,580.3912872
no matter how extremely complex fire ceremony is, at its basic level, it is exactly what you saw in, with the ancient Israelites and the, in the temple.

404
00:41:05,770.3882872 --> 00:41:14,620.3912872
You're basically telling God, "Please do good stuff for us, and don't fuck us off Because, you're making offerings, and then that- ...takes

405
00:41:14,620.3912872 --> 00:41:16,770.3812872
place in,, the Zoroastrians take that up and...

406
00:41:17,290.3822872 --> 00:41:37,100.3762871
But his point was that, yes, you allow people to do that 'cause people will be simple-minded like that, and that sort of exchange, that economy of- it's almost an extortion racket, right? we'll make these offerings of, valuable substances so that our progeny doesn't die in childbirth.

407
00:41:38,120.3732871 --> 00:41:43,350.3682871
But the rishis understood it in the subtle way, in, how it connects to the astral realm.

408
00:41:43,350.3682871 --> 00:41:47,520.3782871
They were connecting the astral realm through the sacrifice.

409
00:41:48,69.3732871 --> 00:42:11,49.3872871
And so then the question is, so what's the big deal with, say, the, the Buddha or the advent of, Christ, And there are two answers to me, and one is that there are moments undoubtedly where, our collective karma makes it possible to accept, the appearance of one of these transcendently enlightened beings.

410
00:42:11,519.3872871 --> 00:42:13,359.3862871
sometimes the conditions are just right.

411
00:42:13,749.3862871 --> 00:42:27,646.0529538
because if they, if it requires that you have to imagine, if, if these beings are, like, so completely compassionate, they know exactly what we need, then why aren't they fucking doing their job? You know, what's going on here? The service in this place is terrible.

412
00:42:27,824.0539538 --> 00:42:30,944.0539538
mm? The service in this place is terrible.

413
00:42:32,106.0539538 --> 00:42:51,250.0539538
And, and so, like, if I, if I think about, okay, there were these enlightened beings, but then, you know, where, is that connecting to the, everyday experience? And I think that it is you know, there's always the ground is being laid, you know? And it's important, to make the, the, conditions just be essentially correct.

414
00:42:52,70.0539538 --> 00:42:55,510.0529538
and in the Buddhist tradition, Shakyamuni Buddha appears in the world.

415
00:42:55,550.0529538 --> 00:42:57,50.0529538
This is a very rare thing.

416
00:42:57,60.0529538 --> 00:43:03,920.0539538
You know the notion of the Buddha bodies, right? You've heard of- heard this idea of the Trikaya, the three bodies of the Buddha.

417
00:43:04,226.0549538 --> 00:43:04,396.0549538
Mm-hmm.

418
00:43:05,40.0529538 --> 00:43:19,990.0499538
So the enlightened state is understood in the Buddhist In fact, we are all understood as, in a sense, it's a very helpful map is the, the three Buddha bodies And by the way, as a side, just a side note.

419
00:43:20,240.0539538 --> 00:43:30,90.0489538
So your idea of death, which you described so, beautifully, it's so Woody Allen, you know? and I'm the same, which is what do we really want? We want oblivion.

420
00:43:30,586.7186205 --> 00:43:31,482.7166205
we're scared.

421
00:43:31,895.7166205 --> 00:43:37,536.7126205
दिया है And our idea of, real comfort is just like just it's gone.

422
00:43:37,546.7116205 --> 00:43:38,486.7126205
Like, everything's gone.

423
00:43:38,686.7106205 --> 00:43:43,870.5956205
So the realization then begins with, oh God, there's some kind of continuity.

424
00:43:44,760.5986205 --> 00:43:48,462.5986205
That's essential, but it's also completely terrifying, Sure.

425
00:43:48,720.5956205 --> 00:43:49,790.5926205
it's completely terrifying.

426
00:43:50,390.5936205 --> 00:44:12,6.5986205
So Buddha bodies then being Dharmakaya, which reality itself, Sambhogakaya, In one sense, the subjective experience of enlightenment that a Buddha itself has, And so we can only represent that.

427
00:44:12,802.5386205 --> 00:44:17,98.5986205
can put that in an image and so forth, multi-armed deity.

428
00:44:17,98.5986205 --> 00:44:19,168.5976205
but this is the deity experiencing itself.

429
00:44:19,977.1586205 --> 00:44:26,748.5976205
W-where these deities dwell in pure lands and, there's all sorts of, in a way, theology around that.

430
00:44:27,108.5976205 --> 00:44:31,248.5976205
And then finally, the emanation body, which is the nirmanakaya.

431
00:44:31,608.5996205 --> 00:44:38,216.5996205
That's a fully enlightened nirmanakaya, Shakyamuni Buddha, so rare, or Jesus Christ, for example.

432
00:44:38,220.5996205 --> 00:44:38,360.5996205
Mm.

433
00:44:38,825.2662871 --> 00:44:47,515.0112317
But then According to Bob this starts to produce limitless numbers of people who are getting enlightened all the time actually.

434
00:44:48,5.0112317 --> 00:44:48,175.0112317
Mm-hmm.

435
00:44:48,587.0092317 --> 00:44:50,687.0092317
it's not like this one and done.

436
00:44:50,707.0122317 --> 00:44:55,707.0092317
It's part of a particular narrative that is, is helpful as a beginning point.

437
00:44:56,347.0062317 --> 00:45:03,533.542565
But his view of this and the Tibetan tradition's view of this is that in fact, you know, enlightenment is a very...

438
00:45:03,923.541565 --> 00:45:10,93.544565
it's not exactly common, but it is happening all the time, that people are-- And sometimes they write.

439
00:45:10,403.545565 --> 00:45:15,313.546565
They, they express it, and we see, oh, okay, Patanjali, know, Maharishi.

440
00:45:16,53.539565 --> 00:45:17,463.545565
Patanjali was an enlightened being.

441
00:45:17,943.546565 --> 00:45:23,273.535565
He, himself very similar to a, Buddha.

442
00:45:24,962.531065 --> 00:45:33,202.527065
so when I step back from that, I guess, I, I get really concerned to, make that distinction of like, "That's a, that's a real Buddha, and this is like, That's like a...

443
00:45:33,562.526065 --> 00:45:35,452.525065
I-I'm thinking of it in D&D terms.

444
00:45:35,452.525065 --> 00:45:36,436.530065
Like, what are your Yeah.

445
00:45:36,436.530065 --> 00:45:37,386.530065
quasi-deity.

446
00:45:37,472.530065 --> 00:45:37,822.530065
Yeah.

447
00:45:38,82.530065 --> 00:45:41,692.531065
What are your hit points? And, uh, you know, so forth.

448
00:45:42,412.525065 --> 00:45:45,206.530065
But the point Has a disc, has a magic sword.

449
00:45:45,406.530065 --> 00:45:46,90.530065
This one doesn't.

450
00:45:46,212.528065 --> 00:45:46,472.528065
right.

451
00:45:46,472.530065 --> 00:46:00,544.7659721
What are your special powers? But what matters is, its implications for me, you know? So I think that The idea that enlightenment's possible is- ...incredibly,

452
00:46:00,654.7659721 --> 00:46:12,944.7669721
Not, not to say that I have I can even conceive of what that is But in a sense, again, the fear of d- dying and that's all about the fear of the extinction of this limited sense of me.

453
00:46:12,964.7659721 --> 00:46:17,274.7659721
Who is it that's actually afraid? Well, I know who exactly I know exactly who that is.

454
00:46:17,274.7659721 --> 00:46:24,114.7669721
That's this person that I'm deeply familiar with- seems to continually cause the problems.

455
00:46:24,144.7669721 --> 00:46:30,194.7649721
And it al- it also seems to be the locus of what I feel as, what's really good and happy and so forth.

456
00:46:30,204.7669721 --> 00:46:37,157.4336388
But- that's where you really the, the, the Buddha Dharma- it's like dharma means to uphold something.

457
00:46:37,397.4336388 --> 00:46:50,619.4346388
The Buddha takes that to, you know, it upholds a sort of social norms in a certain sense, right? Kama, artha, well Yeah, karma, kama, arta, ...dharma,

458
00:46:50,761.4346388 --> 00:46:52,107.4346388
moksha dharma.

459
00:46:52,107.4346388 --> 00:46:52,367.4346388
Right.

460
00:46:52,407.4346388 --> 00:46:53,427.4346388
Kama, artha, and dharma.

461
00:46:53,477.4346388 --> 00:46:55,197.4346388
But the moksha is a later addition.

462
00:46:55,607.4346388 --> 00:47:06,467.4316388
Moksha's a later addition, And so that original idea was just like, upholding appropriate social norms so that you, let the father be the father and, fulfill that role.

463
00:47:06,467.4326388 --> 00:47:09,397.4326388
And, we know who we are and everything.

464
00:47:09,807.4326388 --> 00:47:15,717.4326388
But the idea of dharma is that it's what h- upholds your true reality.

465
00:47:15,727.4336388 --> 00:47:16,827.4336388
It's what upholds, ...you

466
00:47:17,17.4326388 --> 00:47:21,226.9868978
know, 'cause the word means to uphold, from that root word dhṛ to hold.

467
00:47:21,986.9858978 --> 00:47:37,796.9818978
So we align ourselves, I guess, somehow with, And I love that idea in, in, experience it even through doing the yoga practice of feeling more aligned, feeling more at ease in the world.

468
00:47:38,3.6505645 --> 00:47:43,709.4173433
But that being said, it it took me a long time to figure out that it was a, very incomplete teaching.

469
00:47:43,919.4133433 --> 00:47:47,909.4123433
I wouldn't go so far as our friend David, you know, who goes like- "They didn't know how to teach.

470
00:47:48,79.4123433 --> 00:47:48,759.4123433
"They didn't know how to teach asana."

471
00:47:49,317.4153433 --> 00:47:49,387.4153433
how to teach.

472
00:47:49,387.4153433 --> 00:47:51,379.4143433
They didn't know how to teach I kinda have no opinion on that.

473
00:47:51,379.4143433 --> 00:47:52,129.4143433
that's curious.

474
00:47:52,149.4143433 --> 00:48:01,69.4143433
Like, I think there's a bit of a, a trend amongst yoga practitioners who have been in the Ashtanga lineage for a while or have had a, Ashtanga practice.

475
00:48:01,69.4143433 --> 00:48:13,979.4123433
And I mean, you've seen this in different people, not just, David's post that he made talking about how Pattabhi Jois and Sharath Jois didn't know how to teach yoga, which I mean, I- They knew how to judge yoga.

476
00:48:14,502.7456766 --> 00:48:18,919.4113433
what do you call yoga, I guess, is- You gotta get down to real definitions.

477
00:48:18,919.4133433 --> 00:48:21,859.4123433
Or even asana, I mean, they had a different approach to teaching asana.

478
00:48:21,869.4103433 --> 00:48:23,459.4133433
They didn't teach asana like Iyengar.

479
00:48:23,489.4133433 --> 00:48:26,619.4143433
They didn't pull out their rulers and straps and blocks.

480
00:48:26,619.4143433 --> 00:48:31,613.4133433
But- for me, Pattabhi Jois always taught asana actually the way he taught asana I love.

481
00:48:31,613.4143433 --> 00:48:32,833.4133433
I, I teach asana ......that

482
00:48:32,833.4133433 --> 00:48:33,53.4123433
way.

483
00:48:33,53.4133433 --> 00:48:37,563.4113433
I think probably you do as well, which is like the inner alignment of your energy.

484
00:48:37,573.4143433 --> 00:48:39,373.4133433
He was looking at your energy body.

485
00:48:39,623.4133433 --> 00:48:43,233.4143433
He wasn't looking at your physical body, and to me, that's what yoga's about.

486
00:48:43,233.4143433 --> 00:48:50,96.3251767
It's not about, where your feet are or where your hands are, or like this muscle or that muscle, or how do I contract this one and release that one.

487
00:48:50,96.3251767 --> 00:48:57,716.3231767
And all these questions about the body to me seem like actually completely off the mark when it comes to true ......yoga

488
00:48:57,716.3231767 --> 00:49:03,216.3191767
teaching, which is about your spirit, your mind, and your energetic field, both internally ......and

489
00:49:03,216.3221767 --> 00:49:03,866.3221767
externally.

490
00:49:04,56.3191767 --> 00:49:06,26.3211767
And like that's ...what

491
00:49:06,26.3211767 --> 00:49:13,42.0383195
Pattabhi Jois looked at, I'm pretty sure, because I was in the room with him, as were you, and he was energetically- So was I.

492
00:49:13,42.0383195 --> 00:49:13,70.6100338
I.

493
00:49:13,70.6100338 --> 00:49:13,226.3251767
was as well ......and

494
00:49:13,226.3251767 --> 00:49:13,766.3211767
you, yeah.

495
00:49:14,166.3191767 --> 00:49:15,406.3221767
But like energetically ...he

496
00:49:15,406.3251767 --> 00:49:16,406.3231767
would adjust you.

497
00:49:16,546.3241767 --> 00:49:17,476.3221767
He would adjust you ......with

498
00:49:17,586.3251767 --> 00:49:19,326.3251767
a look, and you'd feel ......your

499
00:49:19,376.3181767 --> 00:49:26,156.3251767
energetic field shift, and something in your body would change because your body is the most densest part of your energetic field.\

500
00:49:26,510.3246767 --> 00:49:27,470.3206767
It was amazing.

501
00:49:27,710.3216767 --> 00:49:28,650.3196767
Like- ...he

502
00:49:28,670.3206767 --> 00:49:31,700.3256767
wasn't concerned about the physicality of it.

503
00:49:31,710.3216767 --> 00:49:35,50.3236767
So I, that's just my argument against that whole ......like

504
00:49:35,60.3206767 --> 00:49:36,560.3206767
they didn't know how to teach asana.

505
00:49:36,570.3226767 --> 00:49:37,200.3216767
It's like, well, ......what

506
00:49:37,200.3216767 --> 00:49:47,530.3296767
are you using asana for? Are you using it to build like your physical body? Are you using it to connect to what you can't see, the invisible realm that's within you? Which is to me- ...the

507
00:49:47,540.3236767 --> 00:49:48,510.3266767
whole point of yoga.

508
00:49:48,976.3256767 --> 00:49:49,166.3256767
Yeah.

509
00:49:49,166.3256767 --> 00:50:02,594.9953433
It makes me think, There certainly are texts that are left with us, including kind of up to the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, there's a sense in which the body is gonna become made into this diamond body vajra body, and that it's gonna become immortal.

510
00:50:02,681.0224194 --> 00:50:04,901.0214194
The amrita siddhi, becoming immortal.

511
00:50:04,911.0214194 --> 00:50:08,641.0184194
So, It does beg the question, exactly like you're saying.

512
00:50:08,641.0194194 --> 00:50:12,801.0174194
If you're saying they didn't teach yoga well, now there are a lot of things to criticize, for sure.

513
00:50:14,81.0184194 --> 00:50:15,341.0194194
are Plenty of things to criticize.

514
00:50:15,581.0184194 --> 00:50:38,811.8819889
But the idea that they didn't teach yoga right then begs the question, well, what do you think this yoga is supposed to end up- doing? And, if it is supposed to mainly be, or exclusively be some kind of, like therapeutic thing, exactly the right thing for your hips so forth, then I would certainly buy it that, you know, Ashtanga yoga is not, like, the most sophisticated, approach to that.

515
00:50:38,821.8779889 --> 00:50:41,291.8779889
there's plenty of things that, that seem to work better.

516
00:50:41,481.8819889 --> 00:50:54,501.8739889
So for me, i think it broke through and created a sensitivity to energetic, reality that we are living in constantly that I'm not sure it could have produced otherwise.

517
00:50:54,501.8769889 --> 00:50:56,191.8729889
I just couldn't think my way into it.

518
00:50:56,411.8759889 --> 00:50:57,711.8719889
I'm a, I'm a tough case.

519
00:50:58,521.8759889 --> 00:51:00,771.8749889
I, I'm a very slow learner.

520
00:51:00,921.8789889 --> 00:51:05,951.8849889
I mean, anyway, it's a lot easier to sit back and, like, critique, and everything.

521
00:51:05,951.8849889 --> 00:51:11,621.8839889
But there is absolutely a trend in people experiencing some buyer's remorse.

522
00:51:11,671.8799889 --> 00:51:12,751.8839889
Let's call it that.

523
00:51:12,911.8779889 --> 00:51:13,531.8759889
You've just- ...been

524
00:51:13,541.8829889 --> 00:51:16,121.8799889
doing that for a very long time.

525
00:51:16,181.8819889 --> 00:51:21,621.8849889
You-- What do you think, Russell? I totally agree that there are some people experiencing buyer's remorse.

526
00:51:21,741.8849889 --> 00:51:22,281.8849889
Absolutely.

527
00:51:22,481.8849889 --> 00:51:28,121.8849889
Many people I know who are my age complain about the home or the education they didn't buy with that money.

528
00:51:28,740.0849889 --> 00:51:28,897.8849889
Yeah.

529
00:51:28,947.8849889 --> 00:51:29,247.8849889
Yeah.

530
00:51:29,267.8849889 --> 00:51:29,599.8819889
Right.

531
00:51:30,229.8859889 --> 00:51:30,707.8849889
Right.

532
00:51:30,737.8849889 --> 00:51:33,427.8849889
And, and I, and I join them, what I mean, there's a lot of stuff I...

533
00:51:33,437.8849889 --> 00:51:37,846.8849889
In so- In a part of me, I'm like, every time I have a little ego contraction...

534
00:51:37,846.8849889 --> 00:51:47,773.8479889
I mean, at any single moment, if I would just get the fuck over myself, I think I could probably be, like, the most extraordinary person, and I keep waiting for that to happen.

535
00:51:48,193.8479889 --> 00:51:50,454.2020472
Um, so, I'm, ever optimistic.

536
00:51:51,74.2020472 --> 00:52:03,148.4565462
But I think that, it's such a commonplace observation that yoga has the potential to work, as exactly as you said, to, open you to, the subtle energetic body.

537
00:52:03,445.1252129 --> 00:52:06,295.1272129
Knowledge about the, the system.

538
00:52:06,305.1262129 --> 00:52:11,929.5462129
The idea that you have a gross physical body, that it has this interface with the, with the subtle.

539
00:52:11,939.5452129 --> 00:52:29,829.5572129
There is such a thing as a subtle body, and that ultimately there is even a super subtle and the alignment of those three, complexes, some of them are built on, form, feeling, sensations, perceptions, conception, and consciousness, like the five aggregates set up.

540
00:52:31,429.5572129 --> 00:52:36,832.8935462
the, the, the subtle body of, the nadi, prana, bindu, and bindu, and chakra.

541
00:52:37,242.8925462 --> 00:52:47,632.8945462
And the super subtle drop, which is the big eye-opening thing to me is in the Vajrayana traditions, is they acknowledge something which really is basically the soul.

542
00:52:47,652.8965462 --> 00:52:50,59.5662129
I mean, let's not beat around the bush.

543
00:52:50,59.5672129 --> 00:52:50,989.5672129
There is a soul.

544
00:52:51,739.5672129 --> 00:53:00,809.5692129
The indestructible drop at the heart center, and this is something is passes, life to life.

545
00:53:00,819.5692129 --> 00:53:06,772.9055462
But in a certain sense too, the root cause of samsara is, ignorance.

546
00:53:08,121.9035462 --> 00:53:10,695.6646953
But part of what we're doing is It's ironic.

547
00:53:10,695.6646953 --> 00:53:11,865.6646953
you're strengthening the body.

548
00:53:11,875.6636953 --> 00:53:16,555.6516953
You're, like, being more capable so that you can let go of it, so that you can let it be.

549
00:53:17,95.6596953 --> 00:53:19,145.6596953
So, forgive me, Harmony.

550
00:53:19,215.6596953 --> 00:53:21,25.6596953
I, I've got a very limited time with John.

551
00:53:21,35.6596953 --> 00:53:24,885.6596953
I have some various, critical questions I need to ask him before we get off the show.

552
00:53:24,905.6596953 --> 00:53:28,555.6596953
And I know you have some, more kind of practical things about being alive.

553
00:53:28,625.6596953 --> 00:53:32,108.9910287
But, I've gone through the moonlight mile.

554
00:53:32,298.9920287 --> 00:53:38,408.9900287
I've seen the red, light that comes from, looking at the sun with eyes closed.

555
00:53:38,458.9900287 --> 00:53:41,228.9900287
I've seen the moment of pure land.

556
00:53:41,958.9900287 --> 00:53:42,448.9900287
Okay, ......for

557
00:53:42,478.9890287 --> 00:53:43,718.9890287
maybe just a glimpse.

558
00:53:43,888.9880287 --> 00:53:46,28.9890287
Maybe it's just a, a fish out of water.

559
00:53:46,28.9920287 --> 00:53:48,8.9890287
Maybe I get three whole fucking days of that fish.

560
00:53:48,18.9890287 --> 00:53:48,378.9890287
Amazing.

561
00:53:48,748.9890287 --> 00:53:51,398.9910287
So, then I'm fully in the Bardo.

562
00:53:51,435.6576953 --> 00:53:57,875.6566953
I'm experiencing great remorse about the people who are dancing about, and they're very happy with my death, ...'cause

563
00:53:57,875.6566953 --> 00:53:59,425.6576953
I'm s- I'm now telepathic.

564
00:53:59,685.6576953 --> 00:54:01,605.6566953
I can go anywhere in the world instantaneously.

565
00:54:02,335.6536953 --> 00:54:04,615.6566953
I come to terms of being like, "Oh, fuck, I'm dead."

566
00:54:05,315.6546953 --> 00:54:07,45.6536953
now there's ...scores

567
00:54:07,45.6536953 --> 00:54:22,460.6516953
and scores of devas and asuras Who show me all kinds of wondrous and horrifying things, and it becomes so intense, in fact, that I'm actually considering rebirth to get the fuck away from these And so it- Beings, beings beings.

568
00:54:22,460.6516953 --> 00:54:34,252.0250287
Uh, and so there are a variety of different lands that, you know, if I'm full of folly, I might go into the animal realm, or into the h- wrath or ghost realm or the hell realm.

569
00:54:34,252.0250287 --> 00:54:45,902.0240287
But, in this moment, it's possible to achieve liberation by avoiding the draw into the copulation of what might be my parents.

570
00:54:45,942.0240287 --> 00:54:48,592.0230287
It's like, just avoid that energy, bro.

571
00:54:48,752.0220287 --> 00:54:53,645.352362
Just like f- sit back, sit back in yourself, and remain firm.

572
00:54:53,655.359362 --> 00:54:59,115.355362
Be strong, as Geshe Lobten told me when I asked him the same question at the Tibetan temple.

573
00:54:59,285.356362 --> 00:55:00,125.354362
"Just be strong.

574
00:55:00,255.357362 --> 00:55:00,935.357362
You'll be fine."

575
00:55:01,461.358362 --> 00:55:08,909.358362
Wait, so he gave you the Nancy Reagan just say no, like when it comes to, when it comes to rebirth? Just say no to copulation.

576
00:55:08,921.358362 --> 00:55:10,925.358362
feeling he was leaving something out there.

577
00:55:10,949.358362 --> 00:55:13,289.358362
so just say no to copulation.

578
00:55:13,319.358362 --> 00:55:20,689.358362
And so why do all of these llamas keep being reborn as reiterations ......of

579
00:55:20,689.358362 --> 00:55:23,979.358362
themself? Why do they keep doing it? Why don't they just peace out- ...and

580
00:55:23,979.358362 --> 00:55:25,359.357362
say, "Take the liberation."

581
00:55:25,809.357362 --> 00:55:36,619.358362
Why? How am I gonna have any chance at this if all of these llamas keep coming back and keep getting sucked into human form? Right, right.

582
00:55:36,669.358362 --> 00:55:37,59.358362
right.

583
00:55:37,379.358362 --> 00:55:57,197.358362
Well, according to the, Mahayana Buddhism, the presence of these beings, i- i- really is It, it's not like proof positive that, you're stuck with compulsively constantly being reborn in samsara.

584
00:55:57,217.358362 --> 00:55:59,997.358362
For all you know, those are angels.

585
00:56:00,87.358362 --> 00:56:01,517.358362
They are actually...

586
00:56:01,517.358362 --> 00:56:17,335.499362
In fact, according to like, the mind training practices that they taught, that's called Lojong, which is a whole tradition in, early Tibetan Buddhism, i- that comes from India though, is that every person that you encounter is potentially an enlightened being.

587
00:56:17,395.501362 --> 00:56:18,475.498362
You don't know.

588
00:56:18,895.501362 --> 00:56:32,955.499362
Because What does an enlightened being do? What's the nature of the whole scheme? Well, theoretically, it's a person who, having made this initial altruistic aspiration to achieve awakening for the sake of all sentient beings.

589
00:56:33,105.496362 --> 00:56:37,315.499362
Why for their sake? So that they could serve them, so that they could help them.

590
00:56:37,315.499362 --> 00:56:38,25.495362
They could, ...in

591
00:56:38,25.495362 --> 00:56:42,925.493362
some way help them to become, realized themselves.

592
00:56:43,285.492362 --> 00:57:00,769.801362
And this gets you into this weird conundrum that, okay, so if a bodhisattva deliberately, is capable of, embodying and reincarnating and so forth, why would they do it at all? Well, that's simple, because they're out of compassion and they would- interact with you.

593
00:57:01,29.803362 --> 00:57:12,143.754362
But the problem is, is that you, nobody is a card-carrying bodhisattva, you know? It's inscrutable, to someone who is, dense and deluded like myself.

594
00:57:12,593.751362 --> 00:57:23,176.903362
And the reason why also, everyone is your guru, everyone is potentially, an enlightened being is that it's on the basis of your interaction with them that you are generating karma.

595
00:57:23,516.904362 --> 00:57:24,166.905362
You are- ...you

596
00:57:24,166.905362 --> 00:57:25,526.900362
are accumulating, karma.

597
00:57:25,706.906362 --> 00:57:49,68.8370287
So th- that's why the Lojong poem say things like, the person who harms me, Not exactly harms me, but, yeah, basically somebody who causes me trouble, they're, they are the, the basis on which I can practice the perfections, what are called the bodhisattva perfections, what is it? kṣanti, virya, and d- dhyāna, samadhi, and vīrya, dhi- uh, dhyāna, um, samādhi and prajñā.

598
00:57:49,68.8370287 --> 00:57:55,842.170362
Or what's the first one Selah, right? Śīla is one, one of them, but the first one is kṣanti, is patience or forbearance.

599
00:57:55,842.170362 --> 00:57:56,772.164362
And- ...so,

600
00:57:57,235.5026953 --> 00:58:04,990.8595037
there's, within the Mahāyāna, the idea that And it's quite similar to, aspects of, uh, the 12 steps, the- The ...AA

601
00:58:04,990.8595037 --> 00:58:17,170.8585037
12 steps that You have this opportunity, in fact, you have engage with people and start to see the causality that brought the, it to the point- ............where

602
00:58:17,170.8585037 --> 00:58:22,290.8585037
you perceive them as your enemy, and they're your enemy because they're causing you distress.

603
00:58:22,500.8585037 --> 00:58:26,260.8585037
And then you begin to see, okay, here are the causes that could have caused them distress.

604
00:58:26,260.8585037 --> 00:58:33,980.8605037
And then it's very practical, It's like, well, if it's really over the top, maybe just avoid them for the moment because, you might not be able to convert that.

605
00:58:34,90.8575037 --> 00:58:50,107.5291704
But without that experience of, genuine this suffering being, and seeing the cause, the, de- dependently created That has produced this particular arrangement between you and they, and they and the rest.

606
00:58:50,447.5291704 --> 00:58:52,407.5291704
You would not start to be able to see...

607
00:58:52,407.5291704 --> 00:58:52,657.5291704
you...

608
00:58:52,657.5291704 --> 00:58:53,237.5291704
you-- ...Again,

609
00:58:53,237.5291704 --> 00:58:58,447.5271704
this is just another aspect of letting go of rigid sense of self.

610
00:58:59,487.5281704 --> 00:59:07,357.5281704
The reason why you can't just do it with airy slogans like just let go- ...of

611
00:59:07,587.5271704 --> 00:59:17,287.5281704
self, because the very nature of The fabric of reality is built upon, our core sense of identity.

612
00:59:17,557.5281704 --> 00:59:20,857.5271704
And this is why the psychedelics are so incredibly...

613
00:59:21,457.5291704 --> 00:59:27,570.8635037
I mean, like, what a-- where did that come from? Some substance that can actually, like, suddenly dissolve that.

614
00:59:28,50.8605037 --> 00:59:32,240.8615037
Because it, it, like you said, Harmony, it is not something that's being added on.

615
00:59:32,250.8625037 --> 00:59:34,384.8625037
It is simply removing something.

616
00:59:35,110.8595037 --> 00:59:45,600.8595037
removing, your filter and your ability to basically apply your predictive models, your, priors, where everything is gonna conform to what you expect it to be.

617
00:59:45,940.8615037 --> 00:59:48,320.8585037
And that's how we know the world.

618
00:59:48,510.8615037 --> 00:59:50,560.8595037
That means we don't know the world.

619
00:59:50,570.8595037 --> 00:59:52,200.8575037
We don't know anything.

620
00:59:52,490.8575037 --> 01:00:01,900.8575037
I'm not sure I do a very good job of explaining or, or even understanding it, but I think that's where I'm at Just as a living being.

621
01:00:01,900.8575037 --> 01:00:10,830.8575037
But particularly in the yoga practice, trying to give people a chance to experience their energetic body and be more in tune with it.

622
01:00:11,370.8575037 --> 01:00:14,110.8615037
I've been learning the Tibetan yoga systems.

623
01:00:14,110.8615037 --> 01:00:15,290.8565037
They do a similar thing.

624
01:00:15,610.8555037 --> 01:00:18,294.8655037
They just happen to do it, a little more directly.

625
01:00:18,990.8605037 --> 01:00:19,410.8605037
...I,

626
01:00:19,450.8595037 --> 01:00:21,110.8595037
as a, as a relative, you know...

627
01:00:21,550.8655037 --> 01:00:29,400.8585037
Well, I've been practicing asana for a really long time, and I think that that's, maybe I'm a quick learner because of that.

628
01:00:30,120.8655037 --> 01:00:39,629.6885037
but again, it only provides as much as you can also start to apply your, Critical insight that, that is necessary.

629
01:00:39,939.6855037 --> 01:00:56,399.6825037
So when you talk about these bardo stages, right? And, it's interesting that you, actually experience them, but, you go through- the moonlit space the, mind, the subtle, which is the initial subtle stage of the mind.

630
01:00:56,947.6785037 --> 01:00:57,307.6785037
Yeah.

631
01:00:57,541.6785037 --> 01:01:04,771.6785037
there, there are certain, mirage-like appearances, and then That's the moment of the earth element dissolving into water or water becoming predominant.

632
01:01:05,521.6785037 --> 01:01:05,791.6785037
Right.

633
01:01:05,851.6785037 --> 01:01:07,201.6775037
And then fi- et cetera.

634
01:01:07,211.6785037 --> 01:01:08,381.6785037
And water into fire.

635
01:01:08,721.6785037 --> 01:01:22,215.6785037
So you get from moonlit space to sunlit space to blackout darklit space, where there is- actually But then this fourth is the arising of the nature of mind, which Fair land.

636
01:01:22,705.6785037 --> 01:01:24,341.6775037
Brig pa Not pure land, though.

637
01:01:24,341.6785037 --> 01:01:29,421.6775037
It's not, because that's still reifying it into kind of a state, you know? Like the- ......the

638
01:01:29,421.6775037 --> 01:01:30,691.6765037
whole goal, the...

639
01:01:30,831.6765037 --> 01:01:41,651.6765037
Not the goal, but the ultimate enemy and what keeps us bound up into the problem of as suffering beings is our compulsive reification of everything.

640
01:01:41,661.6785037 --> 01:01:45,981.6735037
Everything has to become a real, thing, and a thing that is real from its own side.

641
01:01:46,371.6745037 --> 01:01:55,231.6705037
So the nature of clear light mind, is, described conventionally as it's clear and knowing.

642
01:01:55,231.6705037 --> 01:01:59,761.6705037
It's completely, boundless, and it has this nature of knowing.

643
01:02:00,221.6765037 --> 01:02:09,711.6695037
so the light that arises in that death dissolution process at that point is called prabhāsvara, which simply means illumination.

644
01:02:10,61.6725037 --> 01:02:10,651.6715037
So there's not- ...it's

645
01:02:10,861.6765037 --> 01:02:11,731.6705037
not directional.

646
01:02:12,383.6745037 --> 01:02:12,713.6745037
Mm-hmm.

647
01:02:13,61.6725037 --> 01:02:18,221.6745037
right? So It's not the sunrise coming, it's just yeah, It's, it's twilight.

648
01:02:18,391.6745037 --> 01:02:19,701.6685037
It's it.

649
01:02:19,721.6695037 --> 01:02:24,621.6725037
It's, it's like twilight or, crépuscule.

650
01:02:24,621.6725037 --> 01:02:27,51.6755037
You know? you speak French, right? Crépuscule.

651
01:02:27,309.6765037 --> 01:02:28,997.6755037
Oh, you're speaking French? Yes.

652
01:02:29,491.6755037 --> 01:02:29,851.6755037
Yes.

653
01:02:30,401.6715037 --> 01:02:36,311.6855037
So crépuscule is, has this ha- is a word that is, that pre-dawn light, that it's- ...like

654
01:02:36,441.6845037 --> 01:02:39,261.6845037
gray, and so if nothing has a shadow.

655
01:02:39,311.6875037 --> 01:02:41,501.6835037
Everything seems to be illuminated itself.

656
01:02:41,881.6865037 --> 01:02:44,81.6845037
So this is- the, the nature of, of...

657
01:02:44,151.6835037 --> 01:02:45,171.6835037
This is the nature of the mind.

658
01:02:45,171.6835037 --> 01:02:52,695.0048371
But then that mind which arises in the process naturally, you would normally go into the bardo.

659
01:02:53,245.0098371 --> 01:02:53,635.0098371
Mm-hmm.

660
01:02:54,51.0088371 --> 01:03:01,735.0078371
But it's about familiarizing ourselves with these sort of processes to the point where we can continually bring that back to meditate on- ...the

661
01:03:01,735.0128371 --> 01:03:14,505.0018371
nature Yeah, Rather than it being a flash, you can stay there and then that, that stillness can then maybe perhaps give you the opportunity to lend yourself to liberation.

662
01:03:15,35.0018371 --> 01:03:19,825.0028371
And again, I ask why anybody wouldn't just go to liberation.

663
01:03:19,825.0028371 --> 01:03:24,975.0018371
Because there is no, there is no, there's no place to there's no place to go.

664
01:03:25,85.0028371 --> 01:03:27,747.0028371
I- Ultimately Yeah.

665
01:03:27,807.0028371 --> 01:03:28,877.0028371
Well, I mean- ...still,

666
01:03:28,927.0028371 --> 01:03:32,797.0028371
there, th- this is a, this is a, the co- this, unfort- above my p- pay grade.

667
01:03:32,797.0028371 --> 01:03:36,277.0028371
The, the whole discussion of, of, of non-duality.

668
01:03:36,277.0028371 --> 01:03:49,840.3341704
Non-duality means different things in different contexts and to different the non-duality that is, probably associated with earliest Buddhist teachings is the non-duality of being and not being.

669
01:03:50,130.3341704 --> 01:03:55,480.3351704
So things are neither reified as truly existing or not existing.

670
01:03:55,490.3331704 --> 01:04:02,470.3351704
They exist conventionally, but ultimately they are empty.

671
01:04:02,520.3351704 --> 01:04:03,300.3341704
They don't exist.

672
01:04:03,310.3321704 --> 01:04:04,180.3341704
They are selfless.

673
01:04:04,580.3331704 --> 01:04:26,390.3301704
Because the arising of the clear light mind is also potentially, extraordinarily blissful Right? But in doing so, you also experience other beings of that bliss, and you don't necessarily, you, the coming, coming back, the, the post-meditative, post, aftermath samadhi is that ......all

674
01:04:26,400.3361704 --> 01:04:29,270.3341704
things then will appear as dreamlike.

675
01:04:30,26.3341704 --> 01:04:30,490.3341704
Mm-hmm.

676
01:04:30,540.3361704 --> 01:04:51,320.3291704
that's another really important c- cognate thing to the psychedelic experience, is that you have this opportunity then to see like, oh, like, I'm normally in It's not that the dream world is, like, this thing that is antithetical to, but it's actually an aspect of i- this is actually the way things are.

677
01:04:52,60.3291704 --> 01:04:57,590.3321704
It, doesn't mean that you can go to the top of buildings and jump off them, because there are constraints within.

678
01:04:57,600.3301704 --> 01:04:59,50.3301704
there's relative constraints.

679
01:04:59,870.3341704 --> 01:05:05,622.0311704
but learning to experience or just getting familiar with one's own lack of solidity.

680
01:05:05,622.0311704 --> 01:05:07,522.0311704
It's just always necessary.

681
01:05:07,902.0311704 --> 01:05:08,412.0301704
But what the...

682
01:05:08,432.0311704 --> 01:05:16,982.0321704
But, but why you would then choose, if you could opt to completely peace out, it's wonderfully put because it's so limited.

683
01:05:17,52.0311704 --> 01:05:22,422.0321704
Your thinking is so limited that you would think that that's, an appealing option.

684
01:05:22,702.0311704 --> 01:05:28,422.0311704
It's just- you're, that's just wish casting of something that you, uh, you know, you and I would do that.

685
01:05:28,804.0321704 --> 01:05:33,994.0321704
Yeah But the whole point is that you and I would no longer be Yeah.

686
01:05:34,646.0321704 --> 01:05:36,976.0321704
Because- That, that- You know why you don't Go, go ahead.

687
01:05:37,76.0321704 --> 01:05:37,756.0321704
I'll tell you why.

688
01:05:38,802.0331704 --> 01:05:38,822.0331704
why.

689
01:05:39,546.0321704 --> 01:05:51,186.0321704
The reason why you don't just opt out if you're in that pure light mind is because you're love, and love is all that is real- Mm ......in

690
01:05:51,186.0321704 --> 01:05:52,166.0311704
that pure light mind.

691
01:05:52,386.0321704 --> 01:05:59,756.0321704
And love draws you back because of your compassion, because of the love for all beings, for all creation.

692
01:05:59,766.0311704 --> 01:06:04,756.0301704
Love is what would draw you back to be born again.

693
01:06:05,336.0311704 --> 01:06:11,166.0331704
Just this morning, Harmony remembered all of her previous lives, and we're really pretty excited about it, and it's gonna ......We're

694
01:06:11,166.0331704 --> 01:06:14,516.0311704
gonna, we're gonna write a book, Uh, go on...

695
01:06:14,926.0331704 --> 01:06:18,469.3605037
Who's that, German guy? Eckhart Tolle? she's gonna be like him now.

696
01:06:18,769.3605037 --> 01:06:20,279.3615037
I have one last question on this.

697
01:06:20,379.3615037 --> 01:06:20,909.3605037
so okay.

698
01:06:20,939.3625037 --> 01:06:26,249.3625037
So I have succumbed- to the copulation of my new parents.

699
01:06:26,349.3615037 --> 01:06:27,929.3625037
I'm gonna be reborn as- ......as

700
01:06:27,999.3595037 --> 01:06:28,849.3625037
a human.

701
01:06:29,459.3615037 --> 01:06:33,919.3615037
my karma dictated a lot of these choices anyway, so I'm, like, just subject to it.

702
01:06:34,799.3635037 --> 01:06:38,9.3625037
I am reborn as, as, as my p- in this one.

703
01:06:38,549.3635037 --> 01:06:45,826.0231704
I asked this question to Geshe-la, the abbot of, Jamtsen Ling Cho, our new temple.

704
01:06:46,32.6958371 --> 01:06:58,692.6928371
and I said, "So is it geography dependent?" Like, if I'm here in Calgary, I'm gonna be reborn to some people in Calgary, right?" It's like, 'cause you keep seeing the Lamas get reborn in, in Tibet to Tibetans.

705
01:06:59,382.6898371 --> 01:07:03,562.6828371
But also I said, like, "Geshe-la, there's, there's other planets.

706
01:07:03,562.6878371 --> 01:07:08,206.6878371
Like, I could be Couldn't I just be reborn on Alpha Centauri? is that not Right.

707
01:07:08,206.6878371 --> 01:07:10,482.6858371
What are you saying? It's infinite.

708
01:07:10,662.6868371 --> 01:07:15,302.6868371
There are infinite, unlimited possibilities for your rebirth.

709
01:07:15,612.6838371 --> 01:07:18,950.6878371
Which then suggested to me that not even this universe.

710
01:07:19,682.6838371 --> 01:07:25,162.6848371
Like, you could I, we could, I could be reborn on a planet where all of us have, holes in the top of our head.

711
01:07:26,78.6898371 --> 01:07:26,558.6898371
Right.

712
01:07:26,648.6898371 --> 01:07:34,188.6898371
they still Do talk about, like, how we exist in this, six-realm set of embodiments.

713
01:07:34,558.6898371 --> 01:07:34,568.6898371
Mm-hmm.

714
01:07:35,208.6898371 --> 01:07:43,868.6888371
And that, that itself is, this, this vast, we happen to be in this sort of central continent of that and, and so forth.

715
01:07:43,988.6888371 --> 01:08:00,868.6848371
Um, you know, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has also said, a lot of this early stuff that you can't take it, a-a-as scientific description necessarily, but I don't know what they say about, the the idea of only- six embodiments or six possible reincarnation types.

716
01:08:01,238.6858371 --> 01:08:02,968.6838371
but anyway, if you entertain .........that

717
01:08:02,968.6858371 --> 01:08:19,138.6868371
for a second, you say, let's say there's, it's possible to re- the only two realms that we have direct experience of are, of course, human and animal, and then there are the four others, and the four others are in realms that we we don't know what expands them I beg to differ.

718
01:08:19,178.6868371 --> 01:08:20,868.6868371
You've met Donald Trump.

719
01:08:20,928.6868371 --> 01:08:21,948.6868371
That's a hungry ghost.

720
01:08:22,288.6868371 --> 01:08:24,58.6868371
You've seen him in the flesh.

721
01:08:24,78.6808371 --> 01:08:24,108.6808371
Right.

722
01:08:24,224.6868371 --> 01:08:24,664.6868371
true.

723
01:08:24,724.6868371 --> 01:08:25,294.6868371
That's true.

724
01:08:25,304.6868371 --> 01:08:28,354.6868371
It's al- almost em- embodied thirst.

725
01:08:28,674.6868371 --> 01:08:29,14.6868371
Yeah.

726
01:08:29,124.6868371 --> 01:08:30,864.6868371
It's, it's so bad.

727
01:08:31,184.6858371 --> 01:08:44,467.018618
yeah, so I guess a lot of times I come back to the, possibility of exactly what these different realms are and, how you're gonna get to them and whether you should get to them.

728
01:08:44,787.019618 --> 01:08:45,797.018618
It's all very interesting.

729
01:08:45,797.018618 --> 01:08:49,617.018618
But what I always keep noticing is that, yeah, but you don't wanna do that.

730
01:08:49,727.019618 --> 01:08:51,807.018618
Like, oh- there's this higher, this form.

731
01:08:51,807.018618 --> 01:08:57,527.019618
you could be in, like, the, the, the top four, the top four zones of the form ...realm.

732
01:08:57,797.020618 --> 01:08:59,667.020618
Like, 'cause we're in the r- desire realm.

733
01:08:59,927.020618 --> 01:09:00,767.018618
Top four realm, the...

734
01:09:00,777.020618 --> 01:09:13,37.017618
all the, um, Brahma Kayika devas exist- in these 16 realms, right? Which are associated with, Maitri, Karuna, Mudita, and Upeksha, so the four immeasurables.

735
01:09:14,437.016618 --> 01:09:19,471.018618
So why wouldn't you wanna be born there? Well, you have no choice when you're there.

736
01:09:19,481.018618 --> 01:09:19,581.018618
It's the heaven.

737
01:09:19,581.018618 --> 01:09:21,203.018618
You've got no way to affect anything.

738
01:09:21,604.018118 --> 01:09:31,304.018118
exactly, and you-- it is actually a very, very undesirable thing because in order to actually get liberation, you would then be stuck there.

739
01:09:31,464.018118 --> 01:09:36,424.017118
So obviously this is not, an everyday concern for some lazy slob like me.

740
01:09:36,764.017118 --> 01:09:54,666.1818123
But it does suggest that, what's really important is this idea that meditative states themselves, or, the different extraordinary states of mind that you experience, maybe on psychedelics, maybe in your daily life, maybe lovemaking, maybe, in a state of terrible fear.

741
01:09:55,156.1808123 --> 01:10:05,826.1838123
All of those states, if they are sustained, they they They, are effectively rebirthed in those realms- ...as

742
01:10:05,826.1838123 --> 01:10:07,346.1818123
if you were reborn in those realms.

743
01:10:07,346.1838123 --> 01:10:11,96.1808123
And so the karma that you are accumulating becau- it becomes equivalent.

744
01:10:11,506.1808123 --> 01:10:16,496.1868123
And you can see how, I don't know if this, is lines up with, correct doctrine or anything.

745
01:10:16,756.1878123 --> 01:10:28,446.1898123
but if you just think about, you know, hell realms, it's pretty obvious that some people are experienced or living hell realms, they-- for them it is hellish 'cause, usually because of mental illness.

746
01:10:28,696.1888123 --> 01:10:33,593.1853123
They're-- Everything they see is a source of terror and, oppression and so forth.

747
01:10:34,266.1818123 --> 01:10:38,536.1818123
And so our minds are so incredibly powerful.

748
01:10:39,96.1838123 --> 01:10:51,606.1928123
and, I think-- I feel like, probably I, I, I could have, started to use some of that enormous energy I had, you know, towards the Ashtanga yoga, learning other methods, earlier.

749
01:10:52,116.1988123 --> 01:10:53,276.1968123
um, maybe.

750
01:10:53,536.1928123 --> 01:10:55,376.1898123
but obviously I Couldn't, 'Cause I didn't.

751
01:10:55,816.1918123 --> 01:10:57,618.1908123
And it's true.

752
01:10:57,718.1918123 --> 01:11:04,505.5221456
mean, right? So I, I still, feel like- unfortunately, I'm just a student.

753
01:11:04,555.5221456 --> 01:11:05,995.5221456
or maybe that's good.

754
01:11:05,995.5221456 --> 01:11:07,815.5221456
I'm still trying to be a student.

755
01:11:07,825.5221456 --> 01:11:17,257.5221456
But I'm trying to, always be aware that this, the, the quality of my mind is really what is ultimately always going to matter what happens.

756
01:11:18,335.5211456 --> 01:11:19,885.5211456
certainly there's nothing that you can...

757
01:11:19,895.5221456 --> 01:11:25,45.5201456
You can't exercise your way out of your, being trapped in your ego.

758
01:11:25,415.5201456 --> 01:11:29,855.5201456
You can't earn your way out of being trapped in your ego.

759
01:11:29,965.5181456 --> 01:11:37,953.3755482
but to surrender to the idea that reality at core is love and the experience can be challenging.

760
01:11:37,953.3755482 --> 01:11:42,333.3745482
to just relax into that you need you need some support.

761
01:11:43,373.3775482 --> 01:11:56,443.3775482
a lot of times you always need but you wanna- the only way that you'll g- ever get that support, the only way you get to those good conditions, is if you try to create them for someone You wanna be able- help other people.

762
01:11:56,643.3775482 --> 01:12:19,483.3875482
So that's mainly what motivates my my yoga teaching, is I feel like if I keep, sharing these things with other people, that they will keep getting shared with me, that my very slow, gradual learning curve will eventually get me to a place where I, I just, my practice is able to produce, some, like I said, a better person to serve, to...

763
01:12:19,523.3835482 --> 01:12:22,853.3875482
I like to be able to help and serve others and love them.

764
01:12:23,363.3835482 --> 01:12:24,595.3865482
it's very hard to love people.

765
01:12:25,803.3855482 --> 01:12:31,137.3865482
They're not so lovable, how, like you've done pe- people are challenging at times.

766
01:12:33,110.7198815 --> 01:12:40,827.3865482
but you've done like all of the series of Ashtanga yoga, decades and decades, like what? Probably 30-plus years of Ashtanga yoga now.

767
01:12:41,487.3865482 --> 01:12:44,625.3845482
Yeah And you're teaching in New York City, I think.

768
01:12:44,705.3845482 --> 01:12:45,395.3845482
At the Tibet House.

769
01:12:45,525.3845482 --> 01:13:05,519.3865482
At the Tibet House, Yes, at, at Tibet, at just Tibet House, yeah And- And- And- in Upstate New Yo- Yeah, so yeah, Oh, and in upstate still with Be- at Bibi's school there? So this is interesting because, as a certified Ashtanga yoga teacher, and also, I went through all of the third series and some of the- ...fourth

770
01:13:05,519.3865482 --> 01:13:06,939.3865482
series, and you've completed ......four

771
01:13:06,939.3865482 --> 01:13:09,309.3855482
series, and I'm sure have done some of fifth series.

772
01:13:09,689.3855482 --> 01:13:15,539.3855482
But like, the people who come to me are usually not doing advanced asanas for the most part.

773
01:13:15,569.3845482 --> 01:13:16,549.3845482
maybe sometimes ...they're

774
01:13:16,549.3845482 --> 01:13:17,709.3845482
doing third series, ...but

775
01:13:17,719.3825482 --> 01:13:18,769.3825482
barely at all.

776
01:13:18,779.3835482 --> 01:13:20,939.3845482
They're more, like, interested ......in

777
01:13:21,349.3835482 --> 01:13:24,549.3885482
kind of, reconnecting to their bodies- Yeah ......and,

778
01:13:24,549.3885482 --> 01:13:25,869.3865482
like- ...experiencing

779
01:13:25,869.3865482 --> 01:13:27,839.3855482
some of the deeper aspects of yoga.

780
01:13:28,149.3885482 --> 01:13:33,909.3855482
And I, I feel like that's actually a testament to what I portray yoga as, and I'm very ......happy

781
01:13:33,909.3875482 --> 01:13:39,949.3885482
to help people reconnect to their bodies and experience their mind and their breath and these deeper aspects of yoga.

782
01:13:40,439.3865482 --> 01:13:59,282.7148815
What Are you, cultivating there at the Tibet Center? What kind of, environment and, and what do you hope people come to learn or experience from Ashtanga yoga? Because I feel like that's maybe different than what you originally started learning Ashtanga yoga for, how we were taught.

783
01:14:00,378.7188815 --> 01:14:08,128.7188815
Well, well, to begin, just to, to slightly, correct that, I, I really don't see myself as teaching now- I...

784
01:14:08,618.7178815 --> 01:14:22,269.3825482
there's still a, trickle of students that, uh, you know, they, they are dedicated to that, very fascinating project of the, of the Ashtanga yoga series, whi- which is actually quite unique.

785
01:14:22,269.3835482 --> 01:14:25,207.3845482
there's, nothing that I've seen that really kind of...

786
01:14:25,949.3845482 --> 01:14:31,49.3845482
it's comparable in terms of, developing the body and the energetics are really, really out there.

787
01:14:31,439.3835482 --> 01:14:36,139.3850482
So some people still, like, have an interest in that, and I'll kind of trying to, like, support their effort in it.

788
01:14:36,139.3850482 --> 01:14:51,786.0542148
But more, my, my main interest and goal with the practice, the yoga practice, is introducing people to, on one hand, using the, the more basic elements of- the Hatha Yoga, asana system.

789
01:14:52,236.0542148 --> 01:14:56,856.0492148
So kind of extracting from the series, as best I can.

790
01:14:57,506.0512148 --> 01:15:02,266.0412148
And, and trying to get them to a place, where one of two things will happen.

791
01:15:02,276.0422148 --> 01:15:28,249.0469272
They'll either discover that, you know, they leave and find something else that they like to do, But it just gets the sort of process going where they find what really brings joy to them, personally in terms of, movement practice And secondarily, that they then see the potential in Tibetan yoga systems which really rely heavily on, uh, pranayama.

792
01:15:28,859.0449272 --> 01:15:31,219.0429272
and both of these are still really, really valuable.

793
01:15:31,219.0459272 --> 01:15:42,335.7843731
it's not like when I say don't teach Ashtanga yoga, it's just that what that requires, I don't actually wanna have somebody necessarily spend all of their effort on that.

794
01:15:42,895.7783731 --> 01:15:47,852.4290398
I would like to- them to be introduced to, These other methods alongside.

795
01:15:47,852.4290398 --> 01:15:49,602.4240398
So it's a little bit of a hybrid thing.

796
01:15:49,852.4250398 --> 01:16:01,849.0957065
But really my own, my own, longer term, goal is that through the work at Tibetan House, that we have the opportunity to, really have a study institute, where people are engaging...

797
01:16:01,859.0987065 --> 01:16:04,399.0997065
people who are already at that sort of level.

798
01:16:04,399.1027065 --> 01:16:13,12.4410398
They've done a fair amount of asana or even, experienced the Tibetan yoga stuff, and then they wanna, go deeper, and they wanna study the texts.

799
01:16:13,622.4410398 --> 01:16:54,912.7863731
they wanna study, the traditional sources, which then, in turn, if depending on their inclination, might connect them to a true authority, which I do not consider myself, Like, but the true authority, you know? Because one of the things about many of the Tibetan yoga they do really strongly connection It's very hard to, like, really do this stuff unless you've experienced either, a living teacher who's there with you or, and I think this is a legitimate substitute, the kind of initiatory process that sometimes I think psychedelics can provide.

800
01:16:54,952.7863731 --> 01:16:56,861.9243731
You Need to jump ship genetically.

801
01:16:56,861.9263731 --> 01:17:01,851.9253731
You need to kind of completely, have the possibility of a radical reset.

802
01:17:02,411.9253731 --> 01:17:10,490.0613731
And that traditionally happens because, oh, You see the guru as his enlightenment in person, and that's a very, very powerful thing.

803
01:17:10,800.0603731 --> 01:17:22,800.0623731
What are you actually trying to do? Is you're trying to radically change your perception of the world and your conception of self, and those things do not budge unless you are, like, really, really, you know...

804
01:17:22,940.0603731 --> 01:17:26,700.0623731
There has to be some power behind that process.

805
01:17:27,272.0633731 --> 01:17:28,306.0633731
your vertical sadhana.

806
01:17:28,366.0633731 --> 01:17:29,126.0633731
Yeah, you have to be...

807
01:17:29,366.0633731 --> 01:17:38,104.0633731
Or s- just something just like with Eckhart Tolle, just you're on a park bench and you've hit rock bottom, and then it arises But even people who are, like, doing...

808
01:17:38,134.0633731 --> 01:17:45,934.0623731
I say even people, but I'd to, just associate this with- You know, thing every-- I'm not talking about, effort as in gritting effort.

809
01:17:46,454.0633731 --> 01:17:48,284.0633731
It just needs to be all of you.

810
01:17:48,964.0623731 --> 01:18:04,484.0633731
So like the way that, Krishna Das sings about or talks about Maharaji or the way that anybody, like, who is, you know, with Maharaji, their heart is just like-- s- just-- he is always, always there, in their heart It's totally far out.

811
01:18:05,274.0653731 --> 01:18:16,564.0653731
This is now twenty years ago, but, the first time I attended any kind of real Vajrayana teaching was on this tantric practice that, His Holiness the Dalai Lama's teaching.

812
01:18:17,344.0673731 --> 01:18:39,628.0444247
and he spends, like, the first several days teaching you know, basic non-tantric stuff, about the-- what's called the Three Principles of the Path, which is a very famous, structuring of the, of the Dharma by the great, Lama Tsongkhapa, the early fifteenth century, who I spent a lot of time translating, with Bob Co- uh, and, and others.

813
01:18:39,988.0494247 --> 01:18:52,148.0454247
And, and the three principles are renunciation, meaning It can mean you go for refuge and, you know, actually, renounce the world, get rid of your stuff.

814
01:18:52,428.0434247 --> 01:18:57,88.0434247
But it, it obviously means not just material renouncing.

815
01:18:57,98.0484247 --> 01:19:00,274.7160914
It means renouncing your, sense that they can help you.

816
01:19:00,804.7110914 --> 01:19:08,874.8694247
Renouncing your sense that the next Amazon buy is really gonna set you up and make you feel really good, and that that's gonna be somehow enduring.

817
01:19:09,104.8724247 --> 01:19:10,424.8694247
You're renouncing that.

818
01:19:11,244.8724247 --> 01:19:26,312.032648
And then the next pa-- you know, principle is bodhichitta, which is this extraordinary mind of awakening altruism and seeking to fulfill self through, compassion.

819
01:19:26,712.029648 --> 01:19:38,698.051648
And then, the third is The understanding reality, you know, understanding, emptiness, in that case, Or, however you wanna put it, emptiness, God.

820
01:19:39,107.3117195 --> 01:19:40,640.1444962
but seeing that everywhere.

821
01:19:40,960.1444962 --> 01:19:43,650.1434962
And then he teaches on that.

822
01:19:43,670.1444962 --> 01:19:47,768.1324646
He's, talking about this, 500-year-old, text, and he's just weeping.

823
01:19:48,98.1334646 --> 01:19:54,998.1334646
his heart is so full of love, for the possibility of what this, what this has, for us.

824
01:19:55,128.1344646 --> 01:20:03,281.4627979
So yeah, I'm, I'm hoping that our school starts to, pick up, and we're teaching, some elements of asana is still really, helpful.

825
01:20:03,281.4637979 --> 01:20:22,935.4637979
I don't know if you continue to teach you still teach asanas? Yeah, I mostly teach it when I'm traveling, so mostly like workshops or Mysore weeks or retreats But they come to you for that? Yeah Yeah, because I still go to other yoga schools that are heavily teaching that.

826
01:20:23,669.4637979 --> 01:20:27,775.4627979
I You- But they always get a little surprise when they come, you know.

827
01:20:28,601.4637979 --> 01:20:37,733.7143232
Because you're not doing it there Yeah, I do teach- You teach all kinds of stuff I teach the Mysore and I, I teach, asana in those classes.

828
01:20:37,733.7143232 --> 01:20:44,3.7143232
But my workshops are, are a lot more- So weird, and tantric, and, and spinal- ......energetic.

829
01:20:44,13.7143232 --> 01:20:51,823.7133232
in-depth about breath, and energy, and like chanting, and mantra, and like vibration, and frequency, and consciousness.

830
01:20:51,823.7133232 --> 01:20:52,973.7143232
And I love, like ......the

831
01:20:52,973.7153232 --> 01:20:55,793.7123232
philosophical, teachings, you know, as you do.

832
01:20:55,803.7123232 --> 01:20:56,623.7113232
That's like- ...my

833
01:20:56,663.7133232 --> 01:21:05,803.7103232
my heart also is always like, what's the nature of reality? What's your relationship to it? What's your relationship to yourself? How are you bringing this into your life? Like, that- ......to

834
01:21:05,803.7123232 --> 01:21:06,743.7103232
me, that's yoga.

835
01:21:07,123.7123232 --> 01:21:07,833.7103232
Like, that's it.

836
01:21:07,913.7093232 --> 01:21:16,943.7113232
Whether you do asana, or go for a run or a swim is like, how are you taking care of your body? there's some things, like I think, you said earlier, asana's...

837
01:21:18,183.7093232 --> 01:21:34,23.7083232
I think asana gives you a specific kind of orientation, especially in the Ashtanga practice, around developing discipline and devotion in a way that maybe, other types of practices don't necessarily evoke, unless you're, like super into it.

838
01:21:34,533.7113232 --> 01:21:35,943.7113232
in sort of a niche way.

839
01:21:36,563.7133232 --> 01:21:36,803.7133232
......And

840
01:21:36,803.7183232 --> 01:21:55,84.0543232
that, that element, that discipline, that devotion, that understanding that creating a, a boundary, a sacred space for yourself, for your connection to God or consciousness or your body, your breath, your mind, that that requires commitment and, and time.

841
01:21:56,174.0523232 --> 01:22:00,454.0543232
That it doesn't- just happen because you want it to, but you have to cultivate- ......something

842
01:22:00,454.0543232 --> 01:22:01,362.0563232
in that, I yeah.

843
01:22:01,492.0563232 --> 01:22:01,802.0563232
Yeah.

844
01:22:01,802.0563232 --> 01:22:04,482.0563232
It's, it's, it's cultivating things, right? It's, it's vaha.

845
01:22:05,408.0563232 --> 01:22:26,706.7239898
Yeah, Bhavana The, the extraordinary thing about both of you, turning your students' attention towards energy or towards the esoterica is that, what we used to do, which is the tragedy of, of Sharath's passing, but also opportunity, is that we used to develop a student to then go to Mysore.

846
01:22:28,74.7239898 --> 01:22:28,724.7239898
Work on them.

847
01:22:28,724.7239898 --> 01:22:28,954.7239898
...Work

848
01:22:28,954.7239898 --> 01:22:29,134.7229898
on...

849
01:22:29,134.7229898 --> 01:22:29,204.7229898
them.

850
01:22:29,204.7229898 --> 01:22:31,964.7249898
It's like, now you look like you're about ready to go to Mysore.

851
01:22:31,984.7239898 --> 01:22:41,474.7239898
Like, you- We had an easy low-hanging fruit that divorced us from real yoga.

852
01:22:42,134.7239898 --> 01:23:00,994.7229898
Whenever we had a student that we could have, shepherded into, uh, Vajrayana yoga or, studying T- Tibetan or studying Sanskrit at a deep level or really working on, pranayama, we would instead, it's like we had just that, "Here, just go to Mysore."

853
01:23:00,994.7239898 --> 01:23:12,717.3926565
But him passing means that all of us are- well, now what do I Like, well now we really get into work of studying Now you get to be a teacher.

854
01:23:12,727.3926565 --> 01:23:14,207.3926565
Now you get to Yeah.

855
01:23:15,87.3926565 --> 01:23:15,507.3921565
Yeah.

856
01:23:15,877.3926565 --> 01:23:25,917.3926565
Yeah, and then it's like the kind of last reflection on that is maybe, the circumstances just have not been set, such that I, I could...

857
01:23:26,377.3926565 --> 01:23:30,537.3916565
I I can't be in New York, to, like, at the studio there five days a week.

858
01:23:30,757.3926565 --> 01:23:35,453.3926565
The kind of thing that is required, really to cultivate that, daily practice like I did.

859
01:23:36,346.3936565 --> 01:23:43,7.3926565
So, I end up working with people who, like I mentioned, a handful who, like, at a more advanced level.

860
01:23:43,17.3936565 --> 01:23:46,887.3966565
But it's, uh, partly just what circumstances allow me to share.

861
01:23:46,917.3946565 --> 01:23:56,637.3936565
If I, were a traveling, teacher like you, and they wanted me to just come in and go to work in their, Mysore room, it would be like really relaxing.

862
01:23:56,647.3936565 --> 01:23:59,237.3936565
You know? I could do it with my eyes closed, and- ...'cause

863
01:23:59,397.3936565 --> 01:24:01,697.3936565
I've done it so much.

864
01:24:01,767.3936565 --> 01:24:18,73.339814
And, you know, I'm honestly, I'm still trying to figure out what to, what to make of that 'cause that is not, the work that I'm called to do And the work that, you know, have to kinda try to figure out, what's the best way because you, you said it beautifully.

865
01:24:18,400.0054807 --> 01:24:31,870.0054807
whatever path, whatever method that you're kinda, like, em- embrace, in a way it doesn't necessarily look like any one thing, but it does require effort and devotion and a sense of possibility.

866
01:24:31,870.0054807 --> 01:24:35,755.581231
Like, uh, And then I'm gonna sound real smart 'cause, I can quote something.

867
01:24:35,755.583231 --> 01:24:50,174.8904989
but it's, one of the few things, we say, So y- So you know, he says in the opening of the Sadhanapada that it has these three essential components.

868
01:24:50,374.8944989 --> 01:24:54,934.8884989
He later on talks about the eight limbs of yoga, but this seems to be this real core.

869
01:24:55,693.8919989 --> 01:25:11,854.8864989
And when it gets to Ishvara pranidhana, the word Pranidhana, totally unbeknownst to, the Brahman tradition of course, because why would they know this? But pranidhana is what you do in, in a bodhisattva commitment.

870
01:25:12,214.8824989 --> 01:25:15,204.8834989
So it's called the bodhisattva pranidhana, or prayer.

871
01:25:15,604.8824989 --> 01:25:28,224.8984989
And, um, basically pledging to attain enlightenment and remain in s- in, in samsara until all beings are enlightenment,, which they never are, And so you never actually leave, Russell.

872
01:25:28,464.9004989 --> 01:25:32,364.8954989
But leave, in a sense, because it ceases to be samsara for you.

873
01:25:32,674.8994989 --> 01:25:34,394.9004989
It will- cease to be samsara for you.

874
01:25:34,744.8994989 --> 01:25:51,406.2278322
And that Ishvara pranidhana too is interesting because then it later in the chapter defines Ishvara as Ishvara, So Ishvara Kleśa karma apārampiṣṭa viṣaya, puruṣa viśeṣa Īśvaraḥ.

875
01:25:51,456.2278322 --> 01:25:58,86.2278322
So Īśvara is a special kind of person that has never been afflicted by kleśa and karma.

876
01:25:58,736.2278322 --> 01:26:08,26.2278322
But the very nature of the human existence or all, any embodied existence is that you are defined ,by kleśa or by, by karma.

877
01:26:08,506.2268322 --> 01:26:20,250.7168322
So what is that? What is this? Just a make-believe person? I think, is that it is a holding place of possibility that you could eventually...

878
01:26:20,340.7178322 --> 01:26:22,90.7138322
you have to open the mind.

879
01:26:22,450.7138322 --> 01:26:28,210.7158322
It's not saying, "This is what it's gonna look It's not, it's not saying, like, when you finally get enlightened, or anything.

880
01:26:28,220.7148322 --> 01:26:30,390.7168322
You just, you have to believe that it is...

881
01:26:30,910.7168322 --> 01:26:33,506.7168322
there is infinite You have to.

882
01:26:34,250.7168322 --> 01:26:38,16.7158322
that's also something you try to model know, teaching, people.

883
01:26:38,820.7158322 --> 01:26:41,540.7188322
or they just think you're a total weirdo, That's possible too.

884
01:26:42,70.7188322 --> 01:26:47,358.7923445
We're gonna talk to your partner tomorrow about your trip to Nepal.

885
01:26:47,993.7923445 --> 01:26:55,883.7913445
we are trying to encourage as many people to go with you as possible because it, it is advised to die in Nepal if you want rebirth as a lama.

886
01:26:56,665.7923445 --> 01:26:59,505.4580112
Let's not, talk so much about death we want as many of Not on John's trip.

887
01:27:00,131.4590112 --> 01:27:01,861.4590112
No, you just don't do it on my trip.

888
01:27:02,327.4590112 --> 01:27:03,177.4590112
It does ......create

889
01:27:03,187.4590112 --> 01:27:04,257.4590112
merit- So tell- ...if

890
01:27:04,257.4590112 --> 01:27:05,327.4590112
you die on John Street.

891
01:27:05,407.4590112 --> 01:27:10,867.4590112
Tell everyone where they can find out more about- coming and working with you or also the trip.

892
01:27:10,905.4590112 --> 01:27:11,185.4590112
Yeah.

893
01:27:11,225.4590112 --> 01:27:16,165.4590112
so all of Vajra Yoga activities right now, we're, you know, so small and building.

894
01:27:16,485.4580112 --> 01:27:23,395.4590112
At Tibet House in New York we have a weekday program, which you can find out through, I think it's thus.org.

895
01:27:23,805.4570112 --> 01:27:25,405.4570112
tibethouseus.org.

896
01:27:25,745.4550112 --> 01:27:28,55.4560112
and like I say, it's a work in progress.

897
01:27:28,55.4560112 --> 01:27:28,455.4550112
Right now.

898
01:27:28,455.4560112 --> 01:27:45,285.4550112
They're only three days a week, where we teach elements of both the asana Hatha Yoga kind of approach, and more and more teaching the Tibetan, structured approach to experiencing and enlivening one's energetic body.

899
01:27:45,735.4560112 --> 01:27:48,815.4530112
you know, You could, I guess, follow me on- Yes on Instagram.

900
01:27:48,815.4530112 --> 01:27:49,918.8529112
follow on the Instagram.

901
01:27:50,128.8529112 --> 01:27:59,638.8519112
somebody- And we'll put all the links in the show notes somebody just started following me, on Instagram because I shared spiritual pilgrim.

902
01:27:59,808.8529112 --> 01:28:01,656.8529112
That's Yeah, that's, that's, Corey.

903
01:28:02,132.8479112 --> 01:28:02,442.8479112
Yeah.

904
01:28:02,658.8529112 --> 01:28:02,678.8529112
who...

905
01:28:02,678.8529112 --> 01:28:03,28.8529112
That's probably- Yeah ...who...

906
01:28:03,28.8529112 --> 01:28:06,582.8529112
you're going to Nepal with follow, follow the spiritual pilgrim yeah.

907
01:28:06,692.8529112 --> 01:28:07,422.8529112
You should do that.

908
01:28:07,727.8484112 --> 01:28:19,78.8529112
You should totally do that And John, I just gotta say, this conversation has been so enlightening, and spending time with you is always such a pleasure and a blessing.

909
01:28:19,88.8529112 --> 01:28:24,678.8519112
and I- Likewise I've had so many awesome downloads while I've been listening to you.

910
01:28:24,808.8539112 --> 01:28:25,938.8509112
So thank you.

911
01:28:26,28.8509112 --> 01:28:31,168.8519112
And I wish, the saddest thing about this is we don't live closer to New York.

912
01:28:31,448.8529112 --> 01:28:31,628.8529112
Mm-hmm.

913
01:28:31,718.8539112 --> 01:28:35,318.8499112
And 'cause I wanna come do some Tibetan yoga with you.

914
01:28:35,458.8499112 --> 01:28:35,792.8529112
That'd be be nice.

915
01:28:36,240.8529112 --> 01:28:36,430.8529112
yeah.

916
01:28:36,430.8529112 --> 01:28:39,190.8529112
I wanna come and visit you guys, and I, and, and you're...

917
01:28:39,200.8529112 --> 01:28:42,50.8529112
I'll, I'll talk to you later about your work.

918
01:28:42,140.8529112 --> 01:28:45,480.8519112
Sounds really, really interesting, and I, I bet it's wonderful.

919
01:28:45,839.8519112 --> 01:28:46,926.1134112
Thank you guys for having me.

920
01:28:47,110.7790778 --> 01:29:08,780.7790778
Wasn't that just so much fun? So just as a reminder, you can check out John teaching Vajra yoga classes through the Tibet House US in New York City, or you could head upstate to Newburgh Yoga Shala where he teaches some classes there at our good friend Bibi Lorenzetti's yoga studio.

921
01:29:09,150.7780778 --> 01:29:22,940.7770778
And if you wanna join him on the spiritual pilgrimage that he's co-facilitating with Corey Michael Bryant, you can reach out to him or The Spiritual Pilgrim.

922
01:29:23,400.7780778 --> 01:29:32,600.7790778
They will be in Nepal September 27th to October 7th, and I would check it out.

923
01:29:32,600.7790778 --> 01:29:53,40.7800778
If you ever want to go hike and learn and experience Buddhism in the Kathmandu Valley, this is gonna be a wonderful retreat to deepen your understanding of Buddhism and yoga and its evolution.

924
01:29:53,234.1094112 --> 01:30:04,134.1094112
before you sign off today, I wanted to invite you to an intimate group experience, a small group that Russell and I are curating.

925
01:30:04,484.1094112 --> 01:30:09,44.1084112
We're holding space for people who want to go deep.

926
01:30:09,574.1084112 --> 01:30:21,74.1084112
We're curating a beautiful experience with two other facilitators who are not just friends, but are family to us, and it will be happening in early November.

927
01:30:21,564.1084112 --> 01:30:39,294.1084112
This will be on the west coast of Canada, and it's going to be an incredible time to truly slow down, to get off your devices, a place to reconnect and remember who you are beneath all of the noise of everyday life.

928
01:30:39,664.1064112 --> 01:30:59,624.1074112
Through art therapy, yoga, meditation, breathwork, and different embodiment practices, nature immersion, this weekend retreat will hold so much power and potential for your growth.

929
01:31:00,84.1084112 --> 01:31:18,469.117432
This space will be held in a way that is truly there for your transformation, with care and guidance and the conditions for doing some very deep listening and deep healing work.

930
01:31:19,269.118432 --> 01:31:33,449.122432
I cannot wait to be offering this incredible experience to a very small group of lucky individuals who want to join us for this journey.

931
01:31:33,459.120432 --> 01:31:41,759.120432
So if you would like to be included in this journey or you want to know more, then please reach out to me.

932
01:31:41,819.121432 --> 01:31:59,87.8873234
You know where to find me on Instagram, @harmonyslaterofficial, and I would love to share with you more details about dates, times, places and costs for this incredible experience That's it.

933
01:31:59,147.8873234 --> 01:32:02,777.8873234
We've concluded another episode of the Finding Harmony podcast.

934
01:32:03,257.8873234 --> 01:32:09,827.8873234
I just wanna thank you so much for doing the work that changes the world, starting with yourself.

935
01:32:10,127.8873234 --> 01:32:13,517.8873234
It truly does make a huge difference.

936
01:32:14,327.8873234 --> 01:32:21,557.8873234
Please make sure you have your automatic downloads turned on wherever you listen, so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes.

937
01:32:21,692.8873234 --> 01:32:25,142.8873234
I have so much more magic I can't wait to share with you.

938
01:32:26,12.8873234 --> 01:32:41,282.8873234
Lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you, so come on over and say hello at Finding Harmony podcast, and you can also come say hello to me personally at Harmony Slater official.

939
01:32:41,672.8873234 --> 01:32:43,532.8873234
Thank you again for being here.

940
01:32:43,712.8873234 --> 01:32:47,822.8873234
I cannot wait to share more with you in our next episode.