Microdosing for Healing: Kayse Gehret on Psychedelics, Seizures & Self-Trust [VIDEO]

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We're So conditioned by the pharmaceutical models that we need to do this thing external to ourselves before we can be complete, before we can heal.

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And microdosing really, it's an opportunity to realize you're doing the healing.

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Welcome.

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I'm Harmony Slater, your host of the Finding Harmony podcast.

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Over the past 20 years, I've taught thousands of yoga teachers and students to explore the intersection between ancient wisdom and modern everyday life, using mind-body practices to heal, awaken, and manifest their dreams from the inside out.

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This podcast is a sanctuary for those feeling overwhelmed by life's challenges.

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Are you ready to jump in and discover how these challenges aren't actually in the way, but are the way to finding harmony? Let's invite the magic back in Hi.

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We're getting a little personal today.

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I'm so glad that you're here because our guest, Casey Gerritt, is the founder of an incredible program called Microdosing for Healing, this is something that's near and dear to my heart because it's a practice that I took up several years ago, and it has really shifted, in many ways, my own health trajectory.

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I really feel like I was at a point in my life before finding microdosing where it felt like everything was kinda deteriorating and going downhill.

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I didn't have any real interest in practicing yoga or doing a physical practice.

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My health wasn't great.

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I had this autoimmune disorder that, was not getting better.

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I had low energy.

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I felt all these effects of the hormones changing in my body, and I had spent thousands of dollars getting tested, uh, and working with a functional medicine doctor, who I love dearly, but honestly, what I learned from that experience was that I had to take matters into my own hands and heal myself And that's what led me to start to look at what are natural ways that people are experiencing profound effects of healing in their bodies, their minds, their spirits, their emotions.

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And so today, our beautiful guest, she is someone who knows how microdosing can heal you firsthand because it was her own story that she healed herself from a seizure disorder that she had had since her teens.

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She had had a disorder called Epsom bar, and, she spent two weeks in a coma.

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She's gonna get into all the details.

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But basically, uh, about five, six, seven years ago, she began microdosing, using protocol.

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You know, sometimes when we think it's microdosing, we think it's haphazard, and it's actually quite regulated, and there's a protocol, and there's things to learn about microdosing, and it completely healed her of her seizure disorder.

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So, you know, what is microdosing? Maybe you're curious.

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What does that mean? So there is a protocol, you don't do it every single day, and it's really ingesting a small amount of, the plant medicine that would have psychedelic effects if taken in large quantities.

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But you're taking them in small quantities, so sub-threshold, sub-perceptual, so that you might notice, uh, very small shifts.

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Like, you might just notice like, "Oh, I'm in a good mood," or, "I feel more open or more aware or more compassionate."

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but you're not having, you know, like tracers or, um, you know, things aren't changing shapes in front of your eyes and you're not feeling like, "Oh, I need to go lie down and close my eyes," as you might on a, you know, bigger type journey experience or a macrodose.

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And so we are gonna talk to her about her story and how learning more about microdosing and working with plant medicine herself has really, um, shifted her health and also how she works with the healing arts and healing people, because she has an incredible program called Microdosing for Healing, which I'm a partner of.

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And if you are interested in really learning the ins and outs of microdosing, if it feels like something you would like for yourself, or if you're a coach or a therapist or a guide, she has an incredible professional facilitator training program that you can, uh, enter into and work with people, your clients, in this beautiful, ethical, integrated way.

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And it includes intake, like how to do a client intake.

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It includes what screenings you might wanna know, protocols, um, you know, different medications that plant medicines can interact with.

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So there's a lot to learn, a lot to know.

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And so that's really, um, some of the things we're gonna talk about in this episode.

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But also, if you're interested, her trainer program, her facilitator program has opened up today.

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Today was the first day.

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There's still time to join.

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You can just catch the replay of the first live session, and there is a bunch of prerecorded videos and education videos, as well as live sessions, and a beautiful group of humans who are included.

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And there is a special, code.

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If you'd like to join through me, you will receive $500 off.

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So, it's a pretty significant, savings that you will receive if you want to join.

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So you can still join and, um, look up her facilitator training program.

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It's called microdosingforhealing.com.

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And when you register for any level of the professional training program, you can use the code Harmony500, and that will give you $500 of savings off any tier of the program.

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And I am just really, uh, very happy to be able to offer her program to you because, uh, it's an incredible tool to have for yourself and also for others that you are supporting in your world.

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So without further delay, let's jump into today's episode.

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Hi, we're here with Kayse Gehret today, and- Hi, welcome to the Finding Harmony podcast.

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This is your host, Harmony Slater.

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I'm your co-host, Mr.

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Harmony Slater.

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Kayse, I love meeting people with the same name as me.

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It's great.

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I'm Russell Kayse, Case, but- Russell Case.

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Yeah, it's great.

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Kayse at the bat.

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you.

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Bring it.

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I've heard them all.

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Yes, actually my, my family and loved ones call me Case for short.

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Oh, they do.

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Oh.

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They call you Case.

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I love that.

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Nice.

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It's a good nickname.

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Mm-hmm It's good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's good.

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You two were, were just talking about the Boom Festival before we got on- in Portugal, and so I have- Yeah I felt some interesting curiosity there from Case, do you know Portugal? Do you know the Boom Festival? Have you spent time there? I have not, but I've always been curious about Portugal because it was my grandmother's favorite country and place in the world.

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that's nice.

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That's so nice.

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I was just gonna ask- Amazing because the Boom Festival is a, is a kind of a big deal, especially in the psychedelic community, and I feel like that's something that we're gonna bring right out of the closet- very quickly here.

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Um, w- Harmony just gave me a book.

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She came back from Portugal and she gave me a book called Psychedelic Integration.

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Yeah.

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And the name escapes me off the top of my head, but it's a Spanish doctor.

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And the Boom Festival is, seems to be quite a big deal for the psychedelic community in Spain and Portugal, where it's completely decriminalized and the advocacy for psychedelics is very robust.

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And I wonder if that resonates with you or if do, do you know anything about that, that book at all? Yeah, I mean, there's thankfully more and more and more books out there in the space these days as it grows around the world and in public consciousness, and thankfully there's more and more of an emphasis on integration, which hasn't always been the case Mm-hmm.

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Yeah Yeah.

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I would completely agree with that.

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I, Harmony and I have this, this story that we've been telling, that I did all the stuff that you sell at Golden Rule 30 years ago.

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And, Harmony now, this is our new hobby.

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This is what we do now.

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we do this.

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We do psychedelics.

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We don't do yoga anymore.

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We don't walk the dogs.

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We're just- We do all of those things too on psychedelics all the time.

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but it, but the, the...

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I keep saying to people, like, the most profound difference between now and in the early '90s is this integration piece, and the container that people have.

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Because if you, if you had your mind blown and you were struggling, you were basically just left in the corner of a warehouse- to fend for yourself while everyone else just kept dancing.

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But nowadays, it's very different, and I wonder if you can talk about that.

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Because I think that may be, like, the, the block for a lot of people the lack of integration, and simultaneously What allows people to feel like they might be able to do something like this, is that they will be held and contained, and they'll be okay.

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Well, also I think the difference, too, is, like, recreational use.

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I mean, we're just throwing everything at you, so you can take it in whatever direction you wanna go.

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But- Have you done psychedelics? I, we don't even No we haven't even started.

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But recreational, you know, like, "Oh, I'm doing this to escape my life or escape the mundane doldrums of, you know, existence," versus using it therapeutically or even, spiritually for growth and awareness and development, and those are very different kinda paradigms.

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Or- So you've been in this, world for three decades, so tell us all about it.

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Or even religiously, like the Santo Daime, you know? Yeah.

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Mm.

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Yep.

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I would say I work with two different sets of people.

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I work with people who say, "I would never in a million years thought that I would be coming to psychedelics."

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They're just not psychedelic people.

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They had a lot of fear.

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They had a lot of stigma.

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I would count myself in that.

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I w- I am fully Gen X.

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I grew up at the height of, like, Reagan, just say no, all indoctrination, drugs.

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all of it, all of it.

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And then on top of that, I had a grand mal seizure disorder growing up, so I was really made to feel fearful, you know, about destabilizing my mind when they couldn't really explain why my mind was destabilized.

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So I tend to work with a lot of those people, and I really understand and resonate when people are coming with that.

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And then I work with a lot of people who, to your point, they're like, "I've done a lot of psychedelics earlier in life, but I could definitely say it was not intentional."

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I didn't take them intentionally.

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not at all.

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And most of the time they had a good experience or they laughed a lot or they had a curious experience, but they couldn't really integrate it.

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It never landed in their life and reality, so now they're coming to practice with an intentionality and a meaning attached to it and looking beyond the molecule into more of what is this experience gonna be for me? Hmm.

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It's interesting.

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That's such a fascinating thing to think about, because the psychedelic experiences I had when I was quite young in life, like 13, 14, 15, 16, And that's, like, THC.

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Um, yeah, but- Heavy doses of herb it was quite intense.

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Yeah.

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Either heavy doses or you're extremely susceptible.

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Yeah, and MDMA a little bit later on in my teenage years.

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But, it's, it is fascinating 'cause I don't think it was taken with a, with a clear intention except, psychedelics was always, for me, because I was part of a group of teenagers that were very interested in, you know- The gurus yeah, new age sort of concepts of, like, entering alternate, states of consciousness, alternate realities, connecting with, spirits or entities or different beings.

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So I was, like, in kind of a, an interesting group of people that maybe most kids don't grow up with.

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They were channeling.

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Yeah, like doing interesting kind of things.

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it was always for me, even though we weren't doing it necessarily intentionally, there was sort of this background of this culture that we were a part of, of like, you know, reading Terence McKenna and, doing different things.

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and looking at my experiences, which were quite intense and very profoundly, life-changing, and not necessarily at that point in my life, like a, a positive way.

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They would've been, like, bad trips, you know, classified as bad trips.

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But ultimately for me, it was very...

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It kinda did change the direction of my life, I think, and made me, interested in what I'm interested in now, which is, like, yoga and spirituality and meditation- Mm-hmm and, the energy channels in the body, and the energy outside of the body and inside of the body, and all the things that we can't see.

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which is kind of interesting to think how, if you can integrate those things, how it does change you in a very profound way sometimes.

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I would just to say that Harmony and I share that s- that very similar story.

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I, I'm wondering if, Kayse, you can talk about, like, how did you- Yeah, how did you get it? come up with, like, this sugar cube in front of you and say, "Well, I may have grand mal seizure, but I'm gonna take it anyway."

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The red pill or the blue pill.

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Mm.

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Yeah, I think I had done so many other healing modalities before I even approached working with psychedelics, and so I had a really, really solid foundation of other healing work.

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I had kinda done all the things, and I met someone who was a cultivator and introduced me to the concept of When was this? microdosing.

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It's time is so vague.

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It's definitely before the pandemic.

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Um, everything's like before the pandemic or before...

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the pandemic or after the pandemic.

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and so it was then that I was like, "I can get behind that because I'm not leaving the earth plane.

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It's subtle.

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It's more like a spiritual supplement."

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And I didn't really know what to expect.

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No one else I knew had been working with small doses like that around me, and so I just thought, "I don't know, maybe my meditations will be deeper.

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I'll be more creative."

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That was kind of my expectation, and my seizures stopped.

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Wow.

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How often were you having seizures? Mm, by that point, I was medicated, so They would...

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Largely controlled by medication, but I was having maybe one or two a year at that point.

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I was having many more before I was medicated, but the medication, the Western meds didn't heal them, obviously, and control them entirely.

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Were you diagnosed with epilepsy then, or? Technically, yes.

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I never tested positive, and they never sourced it in epilepsy, but they, since they couldn't find anything else wrong, that's what I was labeled as, and that's how I was medicated.

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but I believe in hindsight that I had a very traumatized nervous system, Mm-hmm.

156
00:16:34,690.04817355 --> 00:16:44,306.0471735
and it just man- that's how it manifested in my body But how did you know that it had stopped the seizures? Like, you weren't stopping your medication, were you? Accidentally.

157
00:16:44,556.0471735 --> 00:16:49,666.0471735
Yeah, I was just, I noticed after some time that I stopped having headaches.

158
00:16:49,666.0471735 --> 00:16:52,636.0471735
I used to get headaches a lot frequently as well.

159
00:16:53,146.0471735 --> 00:16:58,136.3805069
And I, gosh, I've had maybe one or two headaches s- ever since.

160
00:16:58,299.3805069 --> 00:17:01,259.3795069
Um, Definitely hormone related at this point.

161
00:17:01,289.3795069 --> 00:17:11,669.3795069
And yeah, my seizures, I just stopped, I noticed that I stopped having auras, and then I just didn't have a seizure, and I've been free of Western meds ever since.

162
00:17:12,10.3805069 --> 00:17:12,500.3805069
Wow.

163
00:17:12,510.3805069 --> 00:17:12,860.3805069
Wow.

164
00:17:12,880.3805069 --> 00:17:18,319.3805069
Did you just, like, decide on your own to stop your medication? Did you talk to anyone? I did.

165
00:17:18,319.3805069 --> 00:17:30,966.0471735
I had three different doctors that I was, you know, under their care and supervision, and at the time, all three of them were extraordinarily against the idea of my coming off medications.

166
00:17:31,76.0461735 --> 00:17:33,716.0461735
and it was really disappointing because they were very fearful.

167
00:17:34,236.0471735 --> 00:17:40,596.0461735
Um, they projected a whole lot of their own fear, and liability to- around them.

168
00:17:40,616.0451735 --> 00:17:47,826.0441735
And also too, I think the most disappointing thing was the sheer lack of curiosity that I experienced of...

169
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You know, I would've been, in the same position.

170
00:17:50,936.0421735 --> 00:17:53,366.0421735
You know, you go off and do this, I can't be involved in this.

171
00:17:53,366.0421735 --> 00:17:54,686.0411735
This is your sovereign choice.

172
00:17:54,686.0421735 --> 00:17:55,346.0401735
You go for it.

173
00:17:55,346.0411735 --> 00:17:57,429.0431735
But I kinda wanna hear how it goes Right.

174
00:17:57,439.0431735 --> 00:17:57,979.0431735
Right.

175
00:17:57,996.0431735 --> 00:18:00,726.0421735
as a health professional, and there was no curiosity.

176
00:18:00,986.0411735 --> 00:18:17,931.0431735
Yeah That's interesting That's a very- I wonder if people would respond, if doctors would respond differently now because of the, yeah Explosion emergence of- Psy- so much, you know- The psychedelic renaissance exposure in the psychedelic and microdosing and the benefits.

177
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You know, that's interesting.

178
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we had a similar sort of story.

179
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we had been, I guess you could say, off psychedelics for 25 years or so, and, and embedded in yoga and healing modalities like this, transpersonal psychology and things like that.

180
00:18:32,381.0421735 --> 00:18:47,891.0391735
and then I was at Calgary Folk Fest, and the guy that I was paired with, who I narc'd on, which I deeply regret- passed me some, microdosable mushrooms, which was very sweet of him considering w- how I was gonna betray him later.

181
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And then Harmony insisted that we take these, and I was like, "I'm not...

182
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I d- I really don't respond well to being high.

183
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I've had really tough times with it."

184
00:18:57,91.0421735 --> 00:18:58,611.0411735
And she says, "No, no, we're at the cabin.

185
00:18:58,711.0411735 --> 00:18:59,551.0411735
We're at the lake.

186
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We're by ourselves.

187
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No dogs, no kids, no moms.

188
00:19:02,71.0421735 --> 00:19:03,221.0401735
Let's, let's do it."

189
00:19:04,111.0421735 --> 00:19:05,601.0381735
I was like, "This sounds like a bad idea."

190
00:19:06,351.0441735 --> 00:19:09,651.0391735
And I was like, my heart was palpitating as we took this little capsule.

191
00:19:10,511.0401735 --> 00:19:17,181.0371735
And then an hour later, I just sort of noticed that I was in a good mood, which was unusual for me.

192
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I was like, "I'm never in a good mood."

193
00:19:22,61.0391735 --> 00:19:22,881.0401735
And That was it.

194
00:19:22,881.0401735 --> 00:19:26,341.0411735
And I was like, "Well, that's really interesting.

195
00:19:26,381.0391735 --> 00:19:28,601.0361735
I haven't been in a good mood for a long time."

196
00:19:29,421.0401735 --> 00:19:32,901.0371735
He didn't realize how, grumpy he was- I had no idea constantly.

197
00:19:33,471.0391735 --> 00:19:33,501.0391735
I didn't know.

198
00:19:33,501.0391735 --> 00:19:38,651.0391735
Just, like, I just normally not happy, normally grumpy, normally kinda whiny and complainy.

199
00:19:38,801.0341735 --> 00:19:43,261.0371735
And, like, I was just like, "This is, this is the nicest I've felt in a long time."

200
00:19:44,517.7038402 --> 00:19:56,917.7118402
That said, Terence McKenna says that there's an endemic of low dosing in our society, and that what we need is our whole society should be really pushing maximum doses of, of mushrooms.

201
00:19:56,917.7158402 --> 00:20:06,798.7158402
W- how, Of course he did what's your What's your, feeling about He was a man in the, born in the '50s, and he's a Scorpio.

202
00:20:07,198.7158402 --> 00:20:08,458.7158402
Of course he said that.

203
00:20:08,818.7158402 --> 00:20:09,388.7158402
Yeah.

204
00:20:09,871.7158402 --> 00:20:10,551.7158402
That's great.

205
00:20:11,101.7158402 --> 00:20:11,961.7158402
I had no idea.

206
00:20:12,178.7158402 --> 00:20:13,408.7148402
Takes one to know one.

207
00:20:13,468.7158402 --> 00:20:13,958.7158402
Yes.

208
00:20:14,378.7148402 --> 00:20:15,718.7148402
yeah, I mean, I...

209
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A lot of the, the high-dose psychonauts, you know, kind of poo-poo and disdain or kind of make fun of microdosing.

210
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Like, what is the point? And the fact is it probably wouldn't do anything for them.

211
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You know, I find the more hardened your mind, the more rigid, the older your mind, but also the more egocentric your mind, the more narcissistic your mind, which those guys had an ego.

212
00:20:41,487.7138402 --> 00:20:44,147.7138402
Well, that's a good sign for me that it affected me then.

213
00:20:44,157.7138402 --> 00:20:44,167.7138402
Mm.

214
00:20:45,318.7118402 --> 00:20:45,988.7128402
It is.

215
00:20:46,18.7118402 --> 00:20:46,948.7138402
It is, actually.

216
00:20:47,378.7128402 --> 00:20:48,78.7108402
So I don't...

217
00:20:48,78.7138402 --> 00:20:52,948.7138402
I think, I think that a lot of times the people who criticize microdosing, they're probably correct.

218
00:20:53,268.7118402 --> 00:20:56,68.7138402
For themselves, it probably wouldn't do much for them.

219
00:20:56,517.7138402 --> 00:20:56,977.7138402
Yeah.

220
00:20:57,487.7138402 --> 00:20:57,517.7138402
Mm-hmm.

221
00:20:57,537.7138402 --> 00:20:58,307.7138402
Interesting.

222
00:20:58,337.7138402 --> 00:21:09,837.7138402
That's really fascinating, 'cause we've always been curious about the difference between, like some people have like, like a hard, like what you say, a hard brain- and some people have a soft brain.

223
00:21:10,137.7138402 --> 00:21:10,747.7128402
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

224
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Being that they're like less susceptible to psychedelics, and other people are more susceptible to psychedelics.

225
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What is your experience with microdosing in these two types of brains, and can you tell the difference? I mean, other Oh, totally.

226
00:21:22,957.7128402 --> 00:21:23,667.7138402
yeah? Mm.

227
00:21:23,727.7138402 --> 00:21:25,57.7128402
In personality type.

228
00:21:25,357.7128402 --> 00:21:30,757.7128402
I love this question and I love teaching on this subject because it's something that I had to work with X number of people.

229
00:21:30,757.7128402 --> 00:21:49,297.7128402
I remember working, when I got to the point where it was like three to 400 people that I had supported in microdosing, and I got to see the arc of their experience and, like, their dosing and their personality and their character and what they brought in and their age, all those factors, and I started to see patterns after a certain number of people.

230
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And so now when I'm helping people find their sweet spot and their dose and their protocol, it's all these constellation of, like, really random things.

231
00:21:57,97.7138402 --> 00:22:02,577.7098402
It's, has nothing to do with body weight or, like, obvious physical things.

232
00:22:02,637.7108402 --> 00:22:03,97.7108402
No.

233
00:22:03,387.7108402 --> 00:22:05,187.7128402
I have found body weight really irrelevant.

234
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I mean, within reason.

235
00:22:06,417.7128402 --> 00:22:14,227.7098402
If it's like a 6'8" guy, right? 300 pounds might- well, you're gonna go on the high end off the bat probably.

236
00:22:14,707.7138402 --> 00:22:19,854.3795069
but can take way more than I can, and I'm like 30% heavier than her.

237
00:22:20,754.3805069 --> 00:22:21,264.3805069
Mm.

238
00:22:21,463.3805069 --> 00:22:22,73.3805069
Yeah.

239
00:22:22,123.3805069 --> 00:22:31,884.3785069
it's very, weight has very little to do with it I'm much more s- we know now after two years on this journey that I'm much more susceptible than she is to anything.

240
00:22:31,884.3785069 --> 00:22:44,393.3795069
So what is it? What is it that makes people more or less like- Soft it's lots of different things, but for starters, I would say, age is usually one.

241
00:22:44,473.3795069 --> 00:22:48,813.3795069
Like, we tend to get set in our ways as we age, so my older brain...

242
00:22:48,813.3795069 --> 00:22:56,123.3785069
So probably my clients who work at the higher doses are my, like, 75-plus-year-olds from New England.

243
00:22:56,764.3795069 --> 00:23:03,463.3795069
Wow I'm like, "You're probably gonna just start off at a higher dose than someone else might off the bat."

244
00:23:03,963.3795069 --> 00:23:08,163.3795069
kids, younger people have very flexible, open minds.

245
00:23:08,183.3785069 --> 00:23:16,113.3795069
It's usually not kind of, quieting their mind, it's bringing coherence to their mind, and just a little bit is all that it takes.

246
00:23:16,253.3795069 --> 00:23:18,953.3785069
Also, how much of a mental person somebody is.

247
00:23:18,963.3785069 --> 00:23:27,93.3785069
Somebody can be very open and flowy and spiritual, but if you have a very active mind, those people tend to need a higher dose.

248
00:23:27,123.3785069 --> 00:23:32,763.3785069
I work with a lot of artists and creatives that are very open and can kind of go into liminal states without anything.

249
00:23:33,183.3805069 --> 00:23:36,283.3795069
And so they tend to work at a low range.

250
00:23:36,653.3775069 --> 00:23:45,243.3795069
I work with a lot of fine artists and painters, and they tend to be very comfortable in liminal stasis already, and so they work at very low doses.

251
00:23:45,453.3795069 --> 00:23:57,472.3815069
Healers that have had a lot of contemplative practice, too, um, especially my female healers, like 60, post-menopausal, they tend to work at very low doses also Yeah.

252
00:23:57,592.3815069 --> 00:23:58,312.3815069
That's so interesting.

253
00:23:58,312.3815069 --> 00:24:09,252.3815069
Yeah, I, I find that I disassociate very easily, and I'll just walking around in another place and manipulating objects in another land.

254
00:24:09,382.3815069 --> 00:24:11,72.3815069
I- That's without a microdose.

255
00:24:11,623.3815069 --> 00:24:12,522.3805069
Yeah Yeah.

256
00:24:14,113.0350423 --> 00:24:15,696.0350423
Yeah, I dosing whatsoever.

257
00:24:15,696.0350423 --> 00:24:16,66.0350423
I do.

258
00:24:16,276.0350423 --> 00:24:20,916.0350423
I think it's a good example of like a lot of people keep using psychedelics.

259
00:24:20,926.0350423 --> 00:24:31,466.0350423
When you get to a certain point, I think the point is you don't need them anymore to, to reach a se- you have a whole new set point and you have a whole new experience of life.

260
00:24:31,516.0350423 --> 00:25:06,653.0340423
Yeah Why would somebody, like, look to microdosing? I mean, your case sounds very, unique in that you were open to trying this, like, and going against sort of conventional medical guidance and just, like, trusting your own self, and that probably comes from decades of, like, doing your own inner work and meditation and really, like, knowing your body and trusting yourself and trusting that you would know if something felt good or not for you.

261
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but like how...

262
00:25:09,143.0310423 --> 00:25:21,778.0320423
Like, what are some reasons that people come to you and start to seek out, like, like maybe I want to try microdosing psychedelics? for sure.

263
00:25:21,778.0320423 --> 00:25:25,688.0320423
I mean, it's definitely a lot more today than it was when I was starting out.

264
00:25:26,88.0320423 --> 00:25:30,98.0320423
When I started out in 2020 was the first time I kinda made a public platform.

265
00:25:30,98.0320423 --> 00:25:41,288.0310423
I had a website and launched group programs, and the first year or two it was really mental health was a big one, depressed, anxiety, pandemic years.

266
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Everybody was in a different situation and handled that situation differently.

267
00:25:45,768.0320423 --> 00:25:56,838.0320423
And also a lot of people who were leaning on unhealthy things during those years to self-medicate, that they were wanting support in moving with nature off.

268
00:25:56,918.0300423 --> 00:26:07,428.0300423
but at the time, it took a certain person to kinda seek this out, right? So it was a lot of people who had quite a bit of experience with meditation, with yoga, with spiritual practice under their belt.

269
00:26:08,108.0300423 --> 00:26:11,438.0310423
But since that time, it's so diverse now.

270
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So I still see all of those things, but I still—now I see everything from couples wanting to work and microdose together to work on their relationship, emotional skill building, resilience, earth connection, spiritual development, lots of different physical health conditions.

271
00:26:27,378.0340423 --> 00:26:30,128.0330423
Everything from c- I get a lot of seizures, not surprisingly.

272
00:26:30,368.0310423 --> 00:26:49,849.0410423
Nervous system conditions, headaches, but also, TBI, concussions, PTSD, um, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, dementia, and autism You know, I, I'd like to come back to the couples piece if you don't mind, just because Sure Harmony and I really are on this journey together.

273
00:26:50,799.0410423 --> 00:27:11,249.0410423
And it seems almost like, especially now having taken, ayahuasca together and, and then DMT, that, there's a kind of a sense of togetherness and a sense of in a p- a particular field of consciousness that a lot of people aren't in.

274
00:27:12,279.0400423 --> 00:27:22,199.0350423
And it's almost like we've, say, converted to Mormonism, together and now we're in this new experience, kinda cult experience.

275
00:27:22,709.0380423 --> 00:27:26,959.0370423
And we've also- shared different cult experiences before together as well.

276
00:27:27,239.0360423 --> 00:27:42,309.0370423
So so interesting 'cause it, not only is there so much opportunity for insight about who we are and why we make the kinds of decisions that we do, but it's also that, we're exploring a different kind of conversation than we've ever had before.

277
00:27:42,809.0320423 --> 00:27:45,899.0350423
Which is so romantic- ...and

278
00:27:45,919.0330423 --> 00:27:59,458.0440423
it's so in- intimate to have, a conversation about the farthest reaches of psychonautical, research, you know? As well as like, well, who's gonna do the fucking laundry today, Absolutely.

279
00:27:59,668.0440423 --> 00:27:59,918.0440423
Yeah.

280
00:27:59,989.0450423 --> 00:28:11,369.0400423
that at all? I'd love to talk about it because I've been seeing it more this year than ev- ever before, and it's just happening very organically and naturally and without intending it, which is always the best way.

281
00:28:11,369.0400423 --> 00:28:21,709.0390423
And I noticed in my group programs that more and more people were saying, "Hey, I'm in this program, but my spouse wants to join me in the microdosing practice," which is amazing.

282
00:28:22,49.0390423 --> 00:28:29,229.0410423
And so they get to have the group experience where attention is on them, and then they get to have their relational experience in their house and carry it forth.

283
00:28:29,229.0410423 --> 00:28:57,189.0420423
So two things that I've seen happen, it's beautiful to watch people growing together because one of the things I would hear a lot, especially in 2020, 2021, is there was this big, It was a portal for everybody, and some people used that portal to grow quickly in their consciousness, in their d- spiritual development, and they often would say to me, "I'm kind of worried because my spouse isn't growing the way I'm growing."

284
00:28:57,559.0400423 --> 00:29:02,969.0400423
And the other sp- and the other spouse was fearful of their spouse changing, and it's like, well, you are gonna change.

285
00:29:02,969.0440423 --> 00:29:07,362.3773756
When you work with psychedelics, you are going to change, right? you can't stop it.

286
00:29:07,382.3713756 --> 00:29:14,122.3753756
And so doing it together is really beautiful because then you're growing together, and you're kind of in the experience together.

287
00:29:14,662.3703756 --> 00:29:29,952.3713756
Also, it's so nice as couples because medicines, especially psilocybin, brings forth aspects of yourself that have been repressed, silenced, buried, and so you get to see these beautiful other sides of a couple.

288
00:29:29,952.3713756 --> 00:29:33,362.3713756
I- there's one couple I work with I'm thinking of right now that they shared their medicine.

289
00:29:33,362.3743756 --> 00:29:46,432.3713756
They were working with the same exact package of medicine, and they're an artist couple, but he's very much kind of the leader, the business brain of the half, very gregarious, very social, very forward.

290
00:29:46,442.3733756 --> 00:29:51,392.3773756
Even when you talk to them, like he's always standing a little bit in front of her, just in their dynamic.

291
00:29:51,932.3713756 --> 00:29:53,792.3723756
And she's the creative.

292
00:29:53,802.3743756 --> 00:29:55,802.3713756
Like, she's the artist, the designer.

293
00:29:55,812.3763756 --> 00:30:00,632.3763756
She loves being in the studio and quiet, and she'd rather not deal with the business people part.

294
00:30:00,642.3703756 --> 00:30:02,202.3663756
She just wants to be in her craft.

295
00:30:02,602.3773756 --> 00:30:05,32.3673756
When they started microdosing, though, they flipped.

296
00:30:05,552.3743756 --> 00:30:08,872.3803756
They completely flipped, and she's like, "I don't even know what's going on."

297
00:30:08,872.3803756 --> 00:30:10,222.3753756
She's like, "I'm doing sales calls.

298
00:30:10,432.3783756 --> 00:30:11,692.3683756
I'm going out to the galleries.

299
00:30:11,942.3733756 --> 00:30:13,102.3673756
I'm talking to the shops.

300
00:30:13,162.3803756 --> 00:30:15,402.3873756
I'm, like, stretching myself."

301
00:30:15,872.3873756 --> 00:30:19,742.3933756
And he conversely was like, "I feel very inward.

302
00:30:20,32.3903756 --> 00:30:22,402.3903756
Like, my inside is expanding.

303
00:30:22,422.3903756 --> 00:30:23,492.3903756
I'm more thoughtful.

304
00:30:23,492.3903756 --> 00:30:24,512.3863756
I'm more deliberate.

305
00:30:24,742.3823756 --> 00:30:29,932.3913756
I actually like watching her shine and kind of present her work."

306
00:30:29,942.3793756 --> 00:30:33,192.3873756
It was really awesome to see them grow and stretch together.

307
00:30:33,529.3913756 --> 00:30:46,229.3903756
I love that, and I love, like, also psilocybin's so, like, I feel like heart-centered and, like, really brings out so much empathy for yourself and for, like, people around you and life around you, and it's...

308
00:30:46,259.3913756 --> 00:30:55,709.3903756
I think it's such a beautiful space to be in with a partner where you can really share what's on your heart, and, like, you're really listening also to the other person.

309
00:30:55,769.3903756 --> 00:30:58,519.3903756
And so it's like a very nice relationship medicine.

310
00:30:58,999.3893756 --> 00:31:09,459.3843756
It's, it's funny, we- we've been learning and reading a whole bunch, but we've been reading about how, like, you know, LSD has its, as its, precursor in ergot, which is a fungus.

311
00:31:09,959.3823756 --> 00:31:18,729.3833756
Ayahuasca is, is a, of course, a, comes out of the chacruna plant, in the Amazon, and the psilocybin is the same molecule, as, as a fungus.

312
00:31:18,729.3833756 --> 00:31:33,489.3843756
And so there's this kind of notion that really maybe what's going on here is that human beings are fungus having a human experience, so that the universe has an opportunity to experience itself here on planet Earth.

313
00:31:33,799.3843756 --> 00:31:36,509.3893756
And, like, that's really what's this, the game that we're having right now.

314
00:31:37,149.3913756 --> 00:31:39,919.3873756
And It's really kinda wild to think about.

315
00:31:39,929.3873756 --> 00:31:45,989.3863756
It's like when people talk about how you're mostly bacteria, like 60% of the cells in your organism are bacteria.

316
00:31:46,269.3873756 --> 00:31:50,919.3873756
I feel like there's something there with the, that like that's what's happening with the fungus altogether.

317
00:31:52,304.3873756 --> 00:32:03,521.3873756
Yeah, we only like to think we're the top of the food chain Once We're, we're not No, once you die and you're consumed by fungus, that, that'll tell you right, right away where you're at.

318
00:32:04,611.3863756 --> 00:32:07,381.3873756
Fungus is the top of the food chain.

319
00:32:07,831.3873756 --> 00:32:10,188.3873756
Fungus is the top of the It is.

320
00:32:10,498.3873756 --> 00:32:11,668.3873756
It truly is.

321
00:32:11,778.3873756 --> 00:32:12,278.3873756
Yeah.

322
00:32:12,561.3873756 --> 00:32:22,978.0540423
I know you work with different medicines, so what would you recommend, or what do you recommend for people, like from like psilocybin versus LSD versus, mescaline mescaline.

323
00:32:22,978.0540423 --> 00:32:24,508.0530423
We got a mescaline packet.

324
00:32:24,508.0540423 --> 00:32:24,778.0540423
Yeah.

325
00:32:24,818.0550423 --> 00:32:26,8.0570423
This, I, just forgive me.

326
00:32:26,98.0540423 --> 00:32:28,548.0540423
We, you do have a relationship at Golden Rule.

327
00:32:28,548.0550423 --> 00:32:30,379.0560423
Did I hear that I do, yes.

328
00:32:30,479.0560423 --> 00:32:31,239.0560423
I'm a partner.

329
00:32:31,418.0540423 --> 00:32:33,349.0560423
is that your, company? No.

330
00:32:33,569.0560423 --> 00:32:33,979.0560423
Mm-mm.

331
00:32:34,228.0550423 --> 00:32:34,748.0570423
a vendor.

332
00:32:34,798.0550423 --> 00:32:35,708.0530423
She's a partner.

333
00:32:35,718.0530423 --> 00:32:36,218.0550423
She's a- A partner.

334
00:32:36,228.0550423 --> 00:32:37,928.0540423
Yeah, a partner, like I am.

335
00:32:38,107.8792789 --> 00:32:46,457.8792789
I love this question, and it's really timely now because people have more, to your point, like, more access to medicines than ever before.

336
00:32:46,517.8792789 --> 00:32:50,867.8792789
when I first started, there was a beauty and a simplicity to it because it was like, "Here's your medicine.

337
00:32:50,887.8792789 --> 00:32:56,977.8792789
This is the only one there is," Right We t- we taught people to grow their own, so there was...

338
00:32:56,977.8792789 --> 00:33:04,237.8802789
took some, like, work and personal connection to it, and now, thanks to our sourcing partners and friends, there's a lot more options.

339
00:33:04,237.8802789 --> 00:33:11,237.8812789
So I primarily work with psilocybin, and it still, and probably always will be my baby and my favorite medicine.

340
00:33:11,257.8802789 --> 00:33:14,627.8802789
Um, I love it, and I've worked with it so much at this point.

341
00:33:14,917.8802789 --> 00:33:23,547.8792789
But especially in the last year, we've really been bringing in different medicines because there's so many more people bringing a diversity of background.

342
00:33:24,357.8802789 --> 00:33:33,917.8812789
I said, like, years ago it was just people, like spiritual seekers or yogis or people who've been meditating, um, who are often ready for psilocybin.

343
00:33:34,457.8812789 --> 00:33:39,597.8782789
There's a lot of people coming now who aren't quite ready for psilocybin, maybe.

344
00:33:39,977.8782789 --> 00:33:45,157.8812789
In terms of the amplification, the psilocybin is very forward.

345
00:33:45,567.8822789 --> 00:33:47,687.8822789
Um, it's, it's big honesty.

346
00:33:47,697.8792789 --> 00:33:52,737.8762789
it's very in your face, and it's great if most people coming to psilocybin, your soul knows that.

347
00:33:52,747.8822789 --> 00:33:55,137.8762789
Like people come in, they're ready for big honesty.

348
00:33:55,147.8762789 --> 00:33:56,237.8822789
They're courageous.

349
00:33:56,507.8842789 --> 00:33:57,827.8802789
They're ready to face things.

350
00:33:57,827.8832789 --> 00:34:02,867.8842789
But if you're not ready for that, you might not be ready for psilocybin.

351
00:34:03,257.8842789 --> 00:34:11,767.8802789
And so we've been working with a lot of other medicines that don't have the amplification qualities, like an Amanita Muscaria we work with a lot.

352
00:34:11,837.8822789 --> 00:34:12,77.8822789
We...

353
00:34:12,567.8772789 --> 00:34:13,147.8782789
The red cap.

354
00:34:13,177.8782789 --> 00:34:15,897.8782789
The Alice in Wonderland? Yep, The Santa mushroom.

355
00:34:16,358.8762789 --> 00:34:17,998.8752789
Yes, exactly.

356
00:34:18,48.8782789 --> 00:34:18,678.8782789
Exactly.

357
00:34:19,48.8782789 --> 00:34:24,638.8742789
Because you get all the nervous system benefits without the kind of emotional amplification.

358
00:34:24,718.8762789 --> 00:34:34,538.8732789
So it's a great starter medicine to work with for people who are highly anxious or really are brand new to psychedelics and really don't know what they're getting into.

359
00:34:34,878.8752789 --> 00:34:47,768.8832789
also Wachuma, AKA San Pedro, is a really beautiful medicine, too, that I notice people who have a lot of experience with psilocybin, sometimes they work with San Pedro and they're like, "Nothing's happening.

360
00:34:48,231.8802789 --> 00:34:48,821.8802789
Yeah, that's right.

361
00:34:48,831.8802789 --> 00:34:49,721.8802789
That often does.

362
00:34:49,771.8802789 --> 00:34:50,851.8802789
Yeah, it was like, what...

363
00:34:50,851.8802789 --> 00:34:54,241.8802789
I just, you know, I feel open and aware and- You're like, I don't understand."

364
00:34:54,261.8802789 --> 00:34:56,351.8802789
When do I start tripping? Mm.

365
00:34:56,821.8802789 --> 00:34:58,571.8802789
Or feeling something, anything.

366
00:34:59,728.8802789 --> 00:35:00,678.8802789
Yes.

367
00:35:00,688.8802789 --> 00:35:03,248.8802789
It's much more of a lean back medicine.

368
00:35:03,358.8802789 --> 00:35:09,838.8802789
Psilocybin is very much in your face and, like, if you don't listen to it, it'll just find another way and kinda keep coming and keep coming.

369
00:35:10,988.8792789 --> 00:35:16,748.8792789
San Pedro loves you to come to your own experience, and it kind of is background.

370
00:35:16,758.8792789 --> 00:35:31,908.8782789
And I'm actually w- I have a program right now for human design projectors exclusively working with wachuma Oh, it's such a soft, subtle background medicine that really suits projector, human design projector energy.

371
00:35:32,338.8812789 --> 00:35:38,108.8792789
So that's been really interesting to witness, and then we also work with LSD, um, as well.

372
00:35:38,315.8802789 --> 00:35:53,5.8802789
on, on that point before you go onto LSD, I just wanna say that we noticed in Hamilton Morris's, documentary on peyote, which is the same molecule, the mescaline molecule that's in Huachuma and San Pedro, that we watched it and it was like, "Yeah, these guys are not...

373
00:35:53,235.8802789 --> 00:35:54,645.8802789
They're eating a lot of buttons."

374
00:35:55,115.8792789 --> 00:35:59,695.8792789
Like, they're eating, like, a gigantic basket of buttons, and they're not getting very high.

375
00:36:00,155.8802789 --> 00:36:00,905.8802789
And we noticed that.

376
00:36:00,905.8802789 --> 00:36:03,615.8792789
It's like, "Oh, they're just becoming more expansive."

377
00:36:04,455.8792789 --> 00:36:06,285.8792789
And, like, that's really lovely.

378
00:36:06,505.8792789 --> 00:36:19,545.8812789
That's a really lovely place to be, especially, say, if you're in a kind of a wounded, traumatic space and you want to feel grateful and not angry anymore, which is maybe something in the N- in the Native American church that might be important to them.

379
00:36:20,576.8802789 --> 00:36:21,106.8802789
Mm-hmm.

380
00:36:21,586.8802789 --> 00:36:22,86.8802789
Yeah.

381
00:36:22,226.8802789 --> 00:36:34,216.8792789
It absolutely has that wise elder kind of chief energy that kind of lets you mess up a few times on your own before you come, to your own realizations.

382
00:36:34,276.8792789 --> 00:36:34,626.8792789
Yeah.

383
00:36:34,636.8802789 --> 00:36:38,196.8802789
Versus psilocybin just kinda lays it straight out for you to see.

384
00:36:38,849.8802789 --> 00:36:39,959.8802789
A li- a little bit- Yeah.

385
00:36:39,969.8802789 --> 00:36:40,599.8802789
stronger.

386
00:36:40,719.8802789 --> 00:36:41,229.8802789
Yeah.

387
00:36:41,329.8802789 --> 00:36:42,589.8802789
DMT is a big one.

388
00:36:42,739.8802789 --> 00:36:43,929.8802789
what about LSD? Yeah.

389
00:36:43,929.8802789 --> 00:36:47,209.8792789
How is it different? I love LSD medicine.

390
00:36:47,209.8792789 --> 00:36:48,629.8792789
So I was really resistant.

391
00:36:48,639.8792789 --> 00:36:53,609.8792789
I was one of those people that was really resistant because it was synthetic, and I was like, "Oh, I only work with natural medicine.

392
00:36:53,669.8792789 --> 00:36:54,799.8792789
I only work with natural medicines."

393
00:36:54,799.8792789 --> 00:36:57,349.8782789
And then I realized that it is a natural medicine.

394
00:36:57,729.8792789 --> 00:37:01,702.2116123
It's just like a lot of things, we manipulate it and synthesize it, Yeah.

395
00:37:01,743.2116123 --> 00:37:04,573.2116123
is a natural medicine that's highly synthesized.

396
00:37:04,963.2116123 --> 00:37:06,833.2116123
So are poodles, by the way.

397
00:37:08,932.2106123 --> 00:37:09,592.2106123
Yes.

398
00:37:09,732.2116123 --> 00:37:10,612.2116123
Precisely.

399
00:37:10,652.2116123 --> 00:37:11,792.2106123
That are awesome too.

400
00:37:11,922.2106123 --> 00:37:12,702.2106123
All awesome.

401
00:37:13,2.2106123 --> 00:37:13,22.2106123
Yeah.

402
00:37:13,831.2096123 --> 00:37:24,481.2086123
and so when I finally did, I had a really interesting experience the first time microdosing LSD because when it came in, it was intuitive and it was very strong, and I was like, "No, I don't, I don't want that.

403
00:37:24,481.2096123 --> 00:37:25,211.2086123
I don't need that."

404
00:37:25,231.2096123 --> 00:37:32,651.2106123
And when I finally relented, I was coming through a really heavy portal in life, just releasing a lot of grief.

405
00:37:32,661.2096123 --> 00:37:34,201.2096123
It was the winter season.

406
00:37:34,211.2096123 --> 00:37:44,131.2076123
It was cold and wet and damp, and I was really having a bit of a hard time, and I was just starting to come through the other side of that when I started microdosing LSD.

407
00:37:44,561.2076123 --> 00:37:50,281.2106123
And as soon as I started, I was like, this is why," because it was such a different experience working with psilocybin.

408
00:37:50,561.2076123 --> 00:38:02,41.2066123
Psilocybin is great to get into things, like a- if you, like, wanna get into the shadow and into the dark and into the space and, like, Scorpios are very comfortable hanging out there.

409
00:38:02,581.2116123 --> 00:38:09,771.2066123
And it really taught me that, like, we have as much to heal from lightness and play and levity and laughter.

410
00:38:09,771.2066123 --> 00:38:14,241.2086123
And LSD just left me feeling buoyant and happy, and I was just spending...

411
00:38:14,281.2086123 --> 00:38:23,511.2106123
I was, like, more playful in life, in my groups and my calls, just holding a v- lighter frequency, and it was so healing.

412
00:38:23,541.2106123 --> 00:38:31,651.2076123
It was so healing, and so I really bring it in more, especially for my clients who, like, really love to do the, the shadow work and the hard, heavy work.

413
00:38:32,1.2096123 --> 00:38:33,131.2076123
It's like you...

414
00:38:33,281.2086123 --> 00:38:37,590.2106123
Yes, you've done the earth, and now you get to heal with the sky a little Yeah.

415
00:38:38,10.2106123 --> 00:38:45,730.2106123
We had a friend who was a psychonaut who was in, actually in Rick Strassman's DMT study in Arizona in the '90s.

416
00:38:46,40.2106123 --> 00:38:54,100.2106123
He said to us that, that he felt that LSD kind of gave birth to the '60s because it gave birth to irony.

417
00:38:55,0.2096123 --> 00:39:02,860.2106123
And there's nothing more '60s than people making fun of the ridiculousness and the hypocrisy of their society.

418
00:39:03,120.2106123 --> 00:39:08,600.2086123
That's, you know, Wavy Gravy and Abbie Hoffman and the Chicago Eight.

419
00:39:08,640.2096123 --> 00:39:15,411.2106123
Like, all those guys were just ridiculous, and, like, that's kind of, the identity of that period Yeah.

420
00:39:15,461.2106123 --> 00:39:18,911.2106123
We're moving into another transit very similarly, interestingly.

421
00:39:18,931.2106123 --> 00:39:28,358.2106123
Astrologically, we're right now entering a transit that patterns, 1965 and 1966 Well, now this conversation can go in a very different direction.

422
00:39:29,728.2106123 --> 00:39:53,758.2096123
I had kind of explained it that way too, and I don't know if it was a, one of our friends who spoke to us about this or where I picked this up, but the, the idea of like when you look at medicine and where it comes from and how it was created, and like the mushrooms grow out of the darkness and they grow in the darkness, and it's It is very, like as you say, it takes you into the depth of your being in some way.

423
00:39:54,58.2096123 --> 00:40:02,838.2076123
But- Whereas- Ergot comes out of the wheat ergot, yeah, and it grows in the light- Mm and it's very- Ergot being the- sunshiny precursor to LSD, yeah.

424
00:40:03,248.2086123 --> 00:40:10,888.2116123
And that was very much, like my own personal- Uh-huh experience with those two medicines too, and, yeah, it was- People laugh so goddamn hard at the sun.

425
00:40:11,893.2116123 --> 00:40:12,743.2116123
Yeah.

426
00:40:12,753.2116123 --> 00:40:13,523.2116123
No, definitely.

427
00:40:13,523.2116123 --> 00:40:14,763.2116123
I found that with Huachuma.

428
00:40:14,773.2116123 --> 00:40:22,768.2106123
When I work with Huachuma, I just wanna be in the sun, outside in the wide-open sky, and it's like, yeah Yeah.

429
00:40:22,768.2106123 --> 00:40:36,438.2126123
And- Like you kind of, i- i- it, you take on sort of the, the frequency of the medicine- Mm-hmm or the, the frequency of the medicine kind of invites you to, become, you know, in, in sync with it in some way.

430
00:40:37,288.2176123 --> 00:40:51,18.2156123
I wanna ask you another question about microdosing, because we're talking about microdosing, but maybe people listening, don't really understand that there's a pattern and a consistency and something behind it.

431
00:40:51,18.2156123 --> 00:40:53,178.2136123
What's the difference? That's, that's the question.

432
00:40:53,178.2186123 --> 00:40:58,545.2186123
What's the difference between doing like a macrodose versus a microdose? Yes.

433
00:40:58,545.2186123 --> 00:41:09,895.2186123
very different and great question, 'cause a lot of people ask, like, "Well, can't you just do this on your own or just take a little bit? Like, does it have to be a structured, formalized thing?" And I think, I mean, yes, you can.

434
00:41:09,895.2186123 --> 00:41:23,655.2176123
I microdosed on my own when I was first starting out and had no idea what I was doing, and still it was great experience, right? But I think when you have structure, just the human mind and our nature just benefits at the beginning of almost anything.

435
00:41:23,665.2176123 --> 00:41:33,575.2196123
Like, if you start a meditation practice or a yoga practice, doing it consistently every day or at least five days a week at the start to really connect with the practice.

436
00:41:33,605.2176123 --> 00:41:42,225.2186123
Like, once you do a practice over and over and over again, ultimately you become the practice, and you don't really need to sit on the cushion every day to be in that state.

437
00:41:42,265.2176123 --> 00:41:45,715.2186123
You can just shift into that state without doing it.

438
00:41:45,715.2186123 --> 00:41:56,445.2156123
And so that's how ultimately you work with a protocol until you don't need a protocol, and you're connected with the medicine, and you intuitively dose after that.

439
00:41:56,455.2166123 --> 00:42:02,45.2166123
And then ultimately, you can kind of be with the medicine without working with the medicine, if that makes sense.

440
00:42:02,902.2186123 --> 00:42:15,572.2186123
That's so great- Yeah 'cause I was, that's exactly the question I was gonna ask, is that right now we're, uh, in a culture with ayahuasca, and we're exploring this, and we're having great success there.

441
00:42:15,572.2186123 --> 00:42:19,972.2186123
And, and for the, those at home, know that ayahuasca isn't screwing around.

442
00:42:21,32.2186123 --> 00:42:24,962.2196123
It is a, like, very s- it's like taking a heroic dose of psilocybin.

443
00:42:24,962.2196123 --> 00:42:26,962.2186123
That is- It's not a microdose.

444
00:42:26,972.2196123 --> 00:42:27,472.2196123
It is not a microdose.

445
00:42:27,482.2196123 --> 00:42:31,132.2176123
Although I have heard that people have microdosed ayahuasca.

446
00:42:31,132.2176123 --> 00:42:37,402.2166123
But it's like, you know, a five It's like the five to eight range, maybe even a bit more, of grams of mushrooms.

447
00:42:37,422.2186123 --> 00:42:38,542.2156123
that was in my experience.

448
00:42:39,62.2176123 --> 00:42:47,412.2146123
So I'm having great success there, h- a- and great evolution and real insight.

449
00:42:47,442.2116123 --> 00:42:52,322.2146123
And at a certain point, I wonder, like, "Well, when am I gonna stop doing this?" Yeah.

450
00:42:52,322.2146123 --> 00:42:55,572.2126123
Well, it's not something you're gonna do every week, either- Well, no typically.

451
00:42:55,612.2136123 --> 00:42:55,752.2116123
no.

452
00:42:55,852.2136123 --> 00:42:56,712.2116123
People do.

453
00:42:56,972.2126123 --> 00:43:00,992.2136123
But, you know, ayahuasceros in Peru do take it three to, three times a week.

454
00:43:00,992.2136123 --> 00:43:16,15.2116123
But, you know, I'm, I'm looking at it, like, three times a year, and like, am I gonna do this the rest of my life? I feel like I'm getting great insight out of it, but, like, at what point am I just, as you were saying, just able to just ride the bicycle by myself? Yeah.

455
00:43:16,855.2116123 --> 00:43:17,735.2116123
Exactly.

456
00:43:17,785.2116123 --> 00:43:36,295.2106123
Yeah, I mean, I think part of the, your success with it today is because you've had a long runway of working with the medicines leading up to, and so that supports you in your high-dose experiences later, and that's my hope for people now that, like, more of the masses and the mainstream are coming to psychedelic practice.

457
00:43:36,815.2106123 --> 00:43:45,725.2106123
I think for 99% of people, like, starting with microdosing is the best way to go because you can slowly, subtly get into relationship with the medicine.

458
00:43:45,725.2106123 --> 00:44:07,525.2066123
You're not gonna s- open up a Pandora's box with a whole bunch of big truth that you are not ready for, that you're not resourced for, and then the more that you lay a foundation, the more you're hopefully gonna have a really beautiful experience that you can navigate skillfully and move through liminal states and also integrate what you're receiving in that journey.

459
00:44:08,800.2076123 --> 00:44:09,780.2076123
I completely agree with you.

460
00:44:09,780.2076123 --> 00:44:29,500.2066123
I think for 90% of the people, just getting out of a depressive, pattern with, with microdosing and not even, you know, seeing funny lights or having a giggle, but just like, "Oh, I don't feel bad anymore, and I don't feel like I need to have a drink at the end of the night or a bottle at the end of the night to get me through to tomorrow."

461
00:44:31,945.2076123 --> 00:44:32,435.2076123
Yes.

462
00:44:32,765.2076123 --> 00:44:33,535.2076123
I love it.

463
00:44:33,555.2076123 --> 00:44:35,915.2076123
I had to be microdosing.

464
00:44:35,915.2076123 --> 00:44:42,974.2076123
It's kind of a Trojan horse for like shifting your entire mindset around the way we heal, Yeah.

465
00:44:43,35.2076123 --> 00:44:52,725.2076123
we're so conditioned by the pharmaceutical models that we need to do this thing external to ourselves before we can be complete, before we can heal.

466
00:44:53,245.2066123 --> 00:45:04,85.2056123
And microdosing really, because it's so new to people, it's an experience most people haven't ever felt before, it's an opportunity to realize like you're doing the healing.

467
00:45:04,834.2076123 --> 00:45:05,84.2076123
Mm-hmm.

468
00:45:05,155.2066123 --> 00:45:06,855.2056123
You're innately doing the healing.

469
00:45:06,855.2076123 --> 00:45:09,825.2066123
And so when I stopped, to use myself as an example, I...

470
00:45:09,845.2056123 --> 00:45:15,935.2076123
When I stopped microdosing, I was like, "Are my seizures gonna come back? Are they gonna come back?" And they've never come back.

471
00:45:16,335.2066123 --> 00:45:19,135.2056123
And I'll go long, long periods of time without microdosing.

472
00:45:19,135.2066123 --> 00:45:24,365.2046123
And many clients since then I've seen it really, it's your own healing.

473
00:45:24,655.2056123 --> 00:46:08,122.2056123
It's just Earth helps you give you that, that assist that you need to reset yourself so that your body can just do what it does and heal Yeah, I think that's like a really profound what you're saying, and probably a question that maybe someone's thinking is like, what is, you know, isn't this just like, you know, we say that it's sort of different than pharmaceuticals, but when you're microdosing, say you're taking a microdose and then, you know, say a typical schedule of, three days rest and then taking a microdose and then three days rest, maybe you're doing that for a month and then you're taking a week or two off and then starting again the protocol.

474
00:46:08,142.2036123 --> 00:46:18,495.2056123
So when you're having this protocol, like what makes it different than like a pharmaceutical drug where it's sort of like you're on it for the rest of your life? Yes.

475
00:46:18,835.2056123 --> 00:46:34,445.2056123
I think that's happening more, that decondition is, we're needing more of that now as more and more people coming to it because it's being presented as an apples to apples alternative to antidepressants often, is just swap this out when the way it works is so completely different.

476
00:46:34,455.2056123 --> 00:46:45,375.2046123
And as soon as you step into practice, you know that instead of antidepressants numb you and take you further away from yourself, whereas psilocybin brings you straight home to yourself.

477
00:46:45,375.2046123 --> 00:47:06,635.2026123
It can be very uncomfortable if you were expecting not to feel or just to or just to feel happier, because oftentimes if you haven't worked with psychedelics before, you need to move through layers of fatigue, malaise, grief, irritability, crankiness, anger until you get to that new set point.

478
00:47:06,645.2046123 --> 00:47:09,595.2026123
So it's, it just works entirely different.

479
00:47:09,865.2026123 --> 00:47:34,56.8722789
And so it's important to have a guide or a facilitator to help you educate that you're not doing it wrong, and this is just things coming up for release to enable you to get to a new natural set point I think that's so important because I think sometimes, especially if people haven't, you know, microdosed or taken psychedelics before, they think, "Oh, I'm just gonna laugh and have a good time," or, "I'm just gonna automatically feel happy."

480
00:47:34,486.8732789 --> 00:47:38,106.8722789
But I mean- But you're lying there just sobbing- Yeah.

481
00:47:38,606.8722789 --> 00:47:40,256.8722789
and feeling great about it.

482
00:47:40,821.8732789 --> 00:47:41,956.8732789
Yes Yeah.

483
00:47:42,6.8732789 --> 00:47:55,373.5399456
Yeah, like one of the first times I remember taking psilocybin, I was just like, like really like going through in my mind and feeling all of these things that I hadn't cried about, and just like cri- like sobbing.

484
00:47:55,383.5389456 --> 00:47:55,413.5389456
Yeah, yeah.

485
00:47:55,413.5389456 --> 00:47:57,363.5399456
Like, hardcore crying.

486
00:47:57,643.5409456 --> 00:47:58,693.5399456
And it feels so good.

487
00:47:58,693.5399456 --> 00:48:08,533.5399456
And I was just like, "Oh my gosh, this feels so good- Yeah to be just like really feeling how hurtful this all was," you know? Whatever.

488
00:48:10,763.5399456 --> 00:48:15,33.5379456
And then it's like it's such a profound cathartic release.

489
00:48:15,463.5399456 --> 00:48:19,493.5389456
But you don't automatically necessarily just like avoid the suffering.

490
00:48:19,493.5389456 --> 00:48:21,963.5389456
You kinda get to go deep into it.

491
00:48:22,3.5379456 --> 00:48:27,843.5359456
Like your, like your s- like our sister-in-law said to us, like, "Look, I don't wanna have an un-fun time."

492
00:48:28,863.5379456 --> 00:48:30,73.5349456
That's why she doesn't do psychedelics.

493
00:48:31,463.5349456 --> 00:48:33,621.0339456
It's like, no, it's really great insight."

494
00:48:33,811.0369456 --> 00:48:35,231.0379456
But it's like it's not fun.

495
00:48:35,231.0379456 --> 00:48:36,981.0349456
It's like, "Well, I don't wanna have un-fun."

496
00:48:40,170.0369456 --> 00:48:49,570.0369456
It's funny, when I talk to people in the space sometimes, especially the researchers and the clinicians, and I was with a, a whole bunch of psychiatrists one night and asked...

497
00:48:49,570.0369456 --> 00:48:58,540.0369456
We were going around saying what is our favorite psychedelic and our least favorite psychedelic, and psilocybin, psilocybin was their least favorite of all of them, of all the MDs.

498
00:48:58,540.0369456 --> 00:49:06,90.0359456
And when I asked them why that is, an un-fun they don't wanna have an un-fun time Nailed it.

499
00:49:06,360.0359456 --> 00:49:07,971.0369456
Yeah That's hilarious.

500
00:49:07,971.0369456 --> 00:49:10,101.0369456
And- That's funny- Oh 'cause I'm with you.

501
00:49:10,111.0369456 --> 00:49:12,21.0369456
That's like my fa- that's like my baby.

502
00:49:12,31.0369456 --> 00:49:12,301.0369456
Yeah.

503
00:49:12,341.0369456 --> 00:49:22,921.0369456
If you could give us a Friday afternoon and maybe, and, you know, we've had a little bit of a fast, and we wrap ourselves up in a blanket and just hug each other for about five hours.

504
00:49:23,491.0359456 --> 00:49:26,201.0369456
What an un-fun time it sounds like.

505
00:49:26,631.0369456 --> 00:49:27,741.0369456
But amazing.

506
00:49:27,751.0359456 --> 00:49:36,711.0369456
Amazingly transformative, and you come out of it with so much gratitude for the earth- and gratitude for your family, and gratitude for the, your trip sitters, these two little poodles that we have.

507
00:49:37,491.0359456 --> 00:49:39,507.7016123
You know, that's a great date for us.

508
00:49:39,697.7036123 --> 00:49:40,647.7036123
Great date.

509
00:49:42,107.7036123 --> 00:49:48,897.7016123
If someone's curious, where do you start with them? They're sort of like thinking, "Oh, this sounds interesting.

510
00:49:48,897.7036123 --> 00:49:49,887.7026123
I'm curious."

511
00:49:51,13.3702789 --> 00:49:54,283.3702789
I love long intake sessions with my clients.

512
00:49:54,283.3702789 --> 00:50:12,693.3692789
So for my group or my one-on-one clients, I spend a long time with people, usually an hour, 75 minutes on our very first call, and go through all the predictable things, right? But I'm really assessing, um, how resourced they are, like what is the 360 of their life and their circumstances, because all of that...

513
00:50:13,143.3702789 --> 00:50:25,623.3702789
The pharmaceutical model thinks like you're just a brain floating around in the universe, separate from all of your experiences And so I like to hear all of the factors that are in somebody else's life.

514
00:50:25,653.3682789 --> 00:50:36,973.3682789
And another thing I love to ask people that I think working with psilocybin, it's very telling, is trying to get a handle on how much fear somebody has in their body.

515
00:50:37,823.3672789 --> 00:50:44,773.3662789
That's a big determining factor, not only in dosing, but how they're experiencing it, how their experience is gonna go.

516
00:50:45,93.3672789 --> 00:50:50,463.3662789
I find people a lot of times are summoned to psilocybin almost in spite of themselves.

517
00:50:50,743.3692789 --> 00:50:52,883.3682789
They're like, "I, I put it off and it keeps coming.

518
00:50:52,883.3682789 --> 00:50:55,213.3672789
I keep hearing about it, and I keep getting called to it."

519
00:50:55,713.3662789 --> 00:51:08,723.3692789
And there's a, a readiness to someone's soul when they're ready to really step into that work, and so they tend to have a courage in them that's kind of bigger than their fear or their hesitancy.

520
00:51:09,93.3712789 --> 00:51:10,983.3712789
But I find it, it can be...

521
00:51:11,663.3712789 --> 00:51:22,253.3632789
Mm, it's a good gauge for if somebody's going to, run a little bit from the experience into their mind or into the external world.

522
00:51:22,523.3652789 --> 00:51:22,953.3652789
Yeah.

523
00:51:22,962.3642789 --> 00:51:23,112.3642789
Yeah.

524
00:51:23,182.3642789 --> 00:51:32,921.3642789
That's also- What's a sign of that? Like, this running, what would, what does that look like? Lots of times it looks like intellectualizing our experience.

525
00:51:32,921.3642789 --> 00:51:37,334.3642789
We're really good at that in The, West, They stay-- We like to stay in our story.

526
00:51:38,64.3642789 --> 00:51:47,837.3642789
We love to stay in the story of the thing and never really get down to the feeling of the thing And this also describes the paradigm or The difference the dynamic between Harmony and I.

527
00:51:47,857.3642789 --> 00:51:51,57.3642789
Harmony's- I'm- can be in her feelings I'm all feeling.

528
00:51:51,147.3642789 --> 00:51:54,907.3642789
And then I'm- So somatic I'm intellectualizing- He's thinking about it the experience.

529
00:51:54,937.3642789 --> 00:52:00,17.3642789
And yet that is also reversed when we're not in the medicine.

530
00:52:00,797.3642789 --> 00:52:01,647.3642789
Which is bizarre.

531
00:52:01,747.3652789 --> 00:52:02,127.3652789
Mm.

532
00:52:02,392.3652789 --> 00:52:03,462.3652789
Interesting.

533
00:52:03,610.6986123 --> 00:52:08,210.6986123
Yeah, it's interesting how, sorta like the artist couple you were talking about.

534
00:52:08,210.6986123 --> 00:52:09,190.6986123
Yeah, it is.

535
00:52:09,450.6986123 --> 00:52:10,560.6986123
It's just like the artist couple.

536
00:52:11,500.6986123 --> 00:52:11,960.6986123
Yeah.

537
00:52:12,170.6986123 --> 00:52:19,570.6976123
the responsible thing to say is it's not for everybody, and yet we really think it's the birthright of every human being.

538
00:52:21,530.6976123 --> 00:52:32,451.7707908
So what do you do? W- you and, you the listener at home, what do you do with that information? So tell people- Mm how they can work with you and what you're offering, 'cause you have a whole program.

539
00:52:32,451.7707908 --> 00:52:35,306.7697908
You have several Yeah, we have all kinds of stuff going on.

540
00:52:35,356.7697908 --> 00:52:40,436.7697908
Yeah, so we started in, with group programs in 2020, and we still do group programs.

541
00:52:40,456.7697908 --> 00:52:42,126.7687908
I love group work so much.

542
00:52:42,126.7697908 --> 00:52:43,246.7697908
So we do usually...

543
00:52:43,256.7697908 --> 00:52:45,466.7687908
It's usually eight people, per group.

544
00:52:45,466.7687908 --> 00:52:47,956.7687908
We do them seasonally, and they're amazing.

545
00:52:47,956.7687908 --> 00:52:51,506.7687908
I think we're in our 34th one right now since 2020.

546
00:52:51,896.7677908 --> 00:52:53,636.7687908
And then we also have a podcast.

547
00:52:53,973.7687908 --> 00:52:54,673.7687908
Yes.

548
00:52:54,726.7677908 --> 00:53:01,36.7677908
we started, like a lot of people started hearing what microdosing was, and it's not something that's talked about specifically.

549
00:53:01,36.7677908 --> 00:53:08,236.7687908
There's a lot of information out there about journeys, but there wasn't a lot of information about microdosing, so we started the podcast in 2023.

550
00:53:08,676.7677908 --> 00:53:11,66.7657908
And then it was funny, something...

551
00:53:11,156.7677908 --> 00:53:14,956.7657908
We started churning out all these accidental guides is what happened.

552
00:53:14,956.7667908 --> 00:53:22,826.7667908
So we had all these people coming through our group, six-week group programs, who by the end of them were like, "I think I wanna do this for work.

553
00:53:22,836.7677908 --> 00:53:24,806.7667908
Is that crazy? It's been six weeks."

554
00:53:24,806.7667908 --> 00:53:31,306.7667908
And they went from being a completely different profession to wanting to support other people in practice.

555
00:53:31,306.7667908 --> 00:53:40,686.7647908
And so after X number of people, individuals, and groups, I put together a training program, and we're gonna start our fourth cohort of our facilitator training.

556
00:53:40,696.7687908 --> 00:53:42,656.7657908
It's a 12-week professional program.

557
00:53:42,956.7627908 --> 00:53:45,56.7627908
September 1st starts our fourth cohort.

558
00:53:45,929.7667908 --> 00:53:46,629.7667908
That's fantastic Beautiful.

559
00:53:46,899.7667908 --> 00:53:49,139.7667908
Yeah That sounds like a real heart opening.

560
00:53:49,139.7667908 --> 00:53:52,379.7667908
It's like, well, I'm gonna go from doing this work to now helping others.

561
00:53:52,379.7667908 --> 00:54:00,468.1021241
Like that's, that's exactly what, happens And so they can find all of your information on your website, I think, right? Yes, all at microdosingforhealing.com

562
00:54:00,883.1021241 --> 00:54:01,993.1021241
Okay, beautiful.

563
00:54:02,433.1021241 --> 00:54:11,293.1021241
And if people are looking for very good, products, they can look up Golden Rule, which we're both partners of.

564
00:54:11,752.1021241 --> 00:54:14,92.1021241
Yes, they have been such a godsend.

565
00:54:14,92.1021241 --> 00:54:18,502.1021241
I mean, not only are they super beautiful women, it's a female-founded company.

566
00:54:18,532.1021241 --> 00:54:26,872.1021241
They're based in Colorado in the US, and it's just opened up this practice to so many more people, across the US who don't have access.

567
00:54:26,872.1021241 --> 00:54:33,642.1011241
You know, coming f- I was in California for many years, and it wasn't hard to find this work or talk about this work or a connection to people.

568
00:54:34,12.1021241 --> 00:54:40,753.1021241
But now we have people from all 50 states, thanks to Golden Rule, able to participate in practice, so Yeah.

569
00:54:40,783.1021241 --> 00:54:47,948.1021241
What's that when a bartender, they hand you a drink and there's like a little bit more alcohol in it than the other one, than other drinks? Heavy pour.

570
00:54:48,288.1021241 --> 00:54:51,393.1021241
Heavy pour? That's my experience of Golden Rule, by the way.

571
00:54:52,293.1011241 --> 00:54:55,883.1011241
It's b- it is a heavy pour, and you do get your money's worth.

572
00:54:56,993.1021241 --> 00:54:57,333.1021241
Yeah.

573
00:54:58,838.1021241 --> 00:55:06,323.1021241
I'll let them know they can put that testimony on their website Yeah, it's a Mm beautiful product.

574
00:55:06,373.1011241 --> 00:55:06,383.1011241
Mm.

575
00:55:06,723.1011241 --> 00:55:09,373.1021241
Beautiful company, and- It was great at Christmas.

576
00:55:09,443.1011241 --> 00:55:12,793.1001241
It was great at every holiday so far that we've had.

577
00:55:13,243.1001241 --> 00:55:14,213.1021241
Very helpful.

578
00:55:14,453.1031241 --> 00:55:16,263.1011241
Any time we've had to deal with family.

579
00:55:16,433.1021241 --> 00:55:20,808.1021241
Any time we've had to deal with family, you are not unusual.

580
00:55:21,123.1021241 --> 00:55:22,143.1031241
take Golden Rule.

581
00:55:22,373.1011241 --> 00:55:22,923.1011241
Mm.

582
00:55:23,243.1001241 --> 00:55:24,253.1001241
Remember the Golden Rule.

583
00:55:25,943.1001241 --> 00:55:26,953.1011241
Well, thank you.

584
00:55:26,953.1011241 --> 00:55:29,313.1011241
This is a, this is so nice to meet you.

585
00:55:29,373.0991241 --> 00:55:29,623.0981241
This is...

586
00:55:29,653.1021241 --> 00:55:33,513.0991241
I could, I could talk about, we could talk about psychedelics all day.

587
00:55:34,584.1011241 --> 00:55:35,584.1011241
Likewise.

588
00:55:35,644.1011241 --> 00:55:36,484.1011241
Likewise.

589
00:55:36,524.1011241 --> 00:55:44,494.1011241
And fun to see Terrence's predictions coming true as we speak that he made all those years ago, weirder and weirder, here we are.

590
00:55:44,574.1011241 --> 00:55:46,419.1011241
Yes That's so.

591
00:55:46,759.1011241 --> 00:55:46,789.1011241
true.

592
00:55:47,89.1011241 --> 00:55:47,369.1011241
Yeah.

593
00:55:47,786.9045564 --> 00:55:49,896.9045564
Thank you so, so much.

594
00:55:50,267.9045564 --> 00:56:09,124.836258
Thank you both so much I hope that you enjoyed this conversation, and if you're curious about exploring microdosing for yourself, then I am a proud partner with Golden Rule Mushrooms, which is an incredible company.

595
00:56:09,514.836258 --> 00:56:19,724.836258
It is female-founded and a completely ethical company with an incredible, medicine product that they are offering.

596
00:56:20,174.835258 --> 00:56:44,242.4427785
And if you would like to sample some of their product for yourself, then you can use my very special code, Harmony10, so Harmony, my name, one zero, at the checkout, and you will receive 10% off anything that you order.

597
00:56:44,782.4427785 --> 00:56:52,672.4407785
So this is a special offer just for you for listening to this podcast, and it is the same company.

598
00:56:52,712.4427785 --> 00:56:57,492.4407785
The Golden Rule is also the company that Casey is a partner with as well.

599
00:56:57,912.4397785 --> 00:57:25,242.4457785
And so if you're a coach, a therapist, a body worker, a facilitator, or someone who is already holding space for people and you want to learn how to hold this work of using plant medicine in a sub-perceptual way through, uh, microdosing, then I would highly encourage you to sign up for Casey's professional training program at microdosingforhealing.com

600
00:57:25,852.4417785 --> 00:57:38,342.4447785
and use the code Harmony500, so Harmony, my name, five zero zero, for a $500 savings off any tier of the program that you would like to invest in.

601
00:57:38,922.4417785 --> 00:57:43,482.4397785
Both of these links are in the show notes, and they will be there for you.

602
00:57:43,942.4387785 --> 00:57:55,372.4387785
This is a limited time offer, so if you decide to sign up for Casey's program next year, I do not know if I will still have this special offer for you.

603
00:57:55,402.4377785 --> 00:58:03,132.4377785
But I have it for this round of training, and so it's yours to use if you're feeling called.

604
00:58:03,592.4397785 --> 00:58:24,198.1163114
And I just wanna thank Casey for being such an incredible guest, and I wanna thank you for listening and being open and, exploring different avenues of healing and new ways of finding harmony in your life and helping others find harmony in their lives That's it.

605
00:58:24,448.1163114 --> 00:58:28,38.1163114
We've concluded another episode of the Finding Harmony podcast.

606
00:58:28,558.1163114 --> 00:58:35,98.1163114
I just wanna thank you so much for doing the work that changes the world, starting with yourself.

607
00:58:35,418.1163114 --> 00:58:38,798.1153114
It truly does make a huge difference.

608
00:58:39,648.1153114 --> 00:58:46,638.1163114
Please make sure you have your automatic downloads turned on wherever you listen so you don't miss any of the upcoming episodes.

609
00:58:47,108.1163114 --> 00:58:50,548.1153114
I have so much more magic I can't wait to share with you.

610
00:58:51,318.1153114 --> 00:59:06,548.1143114
Lastly, if you're on Instagram, I love connecting and hearing from you, so come on over and say hello @findingharmonypodcast, and you can also come say hello to me personally @harmonyslaterofficial.

611
00:59:06,938.1163114 --> 00:59:08,808.1163114
Thank you again for being here.

612
00:59:09,18.1143114 --> 00:59:13,138.1143114
I cannot wait to share more with you in our next episode