98. Perfectionism Disguised as Wellness: Rethinking What Health Really Means | with Nidhi Sunil [video]

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Welcome, pod pal, to today's guest episode with Nidhi Sunil, who's an Indian model, activist, and emerging Ayurvedic health practitioner based in New York.

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And I'm super excited about this episode.

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It's kind of a window into an industry that I knew nothing about, modeling.

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And Nidhi, born in Kerala, raised in South India, she was named Vogue India's Model of the Year in 2017, and later became the first Indian model to represent L'Oréal Paris as a global ambassador.

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And so what we're gonna hear about or talk about with Nidhi today is kind of her experience of working in an industry where she felt like there, there's a lot of control over the body, a lot of performance and, external focus.

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She did experience a burnout, and i- is in the healing process from that time.

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You know, we hear about sort of the intensity of the lifestyle working in modeling, things like, getting on a flight to Paris at night, working all day, a- and then getting on a flight home, right? And then going to the next job in New York.

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So a really candid, look into the lifestyle, I would say, of the, someone in the modeling industry, and also a really, deep, conversation that all of us, I think, can relate to, the process of self-worth and why we push ourselves the way that we push ourselves and often end up in states of depletion or burnout.

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And so this is a really amazing look into a person who's being really honest right now about that process, right? Of recognizing burnout, healing from burnout, how we get there, but more importantly, why, why we get there.

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And y- I feel like there's so many things in this episode that you'll remember.

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You will keep thinking about some of the statements that you hear from Nidhi Sunil in this episode.

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So take a deep breath, tune in with us, and let's go along on this journey today right after this.

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Welcome to Everyday Ayurveda with Kate, a podcast that translates ancient wisdom for modern lives.

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I'm your host, Kate O'Donnell.

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I've been living and teaching Ayurveda, India's traditional medicine, for over 25 years, and I've authored four best-selling books on bringing Ayurveda practices into our lives.

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If you're tired of battling digestive issues, hormonal imbalances, menopause symptoms, or are seeking a deeper spiritual connection and purpose, you're in the right place.

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This podcast is for you, offering practical, accessible advice to help you heal through diet, optimize your daily routines, and enhance your overall wellbeing.

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Follow this space for insights on a diet that heals, strategies for better digestion, sleep, hormone health, and direction for finding a deep sense of meaning and purpose.

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Join me, my pod people, for this empowering journey into self-care and self-discovery.

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Together, we'll explore how to bring balance and vitality into your everyday life.

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Let's do this.

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Hi, Nidhi Sunil.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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Mm-hmm.

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Hi, Cate O'Donnell.

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Thanks for having me.

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excited to have you here.

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You know, I met you, as an Ayurveda student at Kripalu not too long ago, and I, I think you know what it was, was I was...

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I think I was in India around the time that you were getting married last winter, and I saw...

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You know, Vogue India was covering your wedding, so I was, like, on my feed all the time, You had all these custom outfits, and I was like, "This is so cool."

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So I think that's how you kinda got in my head, and, and I wanted...

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One of the reasons that I...

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I love having folks on for whom Ayurveda is, a part of your life.

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You know, like that- Mm-hmm you know, it was funny to, meet you in Ayurveda school but also then talk with you about this being, something you grew up with.

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Like, you mentioned your mom, kind of, like, forcing you to do oil massages.

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Yeah, it's, it really, it's been an interesting, sort of journey back to Ayurveda while I've been in the United States because I, I grew up with it, except when I was a kid, I didn't really think about it as Ayurveda.

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It's just something I had to do.

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So it was actually really annoying because I would come home from school and, you know, we were like a regular middle class Indian family.

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We had, help for the kids.

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That's how my parents could go to work.

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And I would come home, and she would say, "Your mother has said you must take a coconut oil bath today."

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And it would be such a pain in the ass because she would rub me down with coconut oil, and then I had to sit in the bathroom while it absorbed before I took a shower.

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And then it usually meant that I would kind of, like, fall asleep right after.

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Wow.

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Obviously, it was, like, downregulating.

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You know, I have words for it now that I didn't then.

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But it generally meant that I was, like, not doing anything else the rest of the day because I was just kind of falling asleep, so.

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Wow, I love that because that's one of the ways that I'll talk about using it.

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You know, some people are like, "Do you do it in the morning? Do you do it in the evening?" I'm like, "Well, if you wanna sleep, you can do it, in the afternoon, evening."

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So it makes sense that, you know, it wasn't Ayurveda.

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It was just, things your mom would kinda tell you to do.

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Exactly.

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I mean, she's Malayali.

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She's from Kerala.

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She grew up there, and she moved after she got married, but, most of those practices sort of stayed with her, and it's just kinda how people live life, i- you know? and it's funny that I, found it later 'cause obviously I gave up that practice.

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I was like, "Oh my God, I'm so excited to, never have to do that again."

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And now here I am doing it every day, so.

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That's so funny and amazing, you know? So you, you've been in New York, so you're grounded in Brooklyn now for about seven years.

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Is that right? Yeah.

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yeah, since 2019.

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I came to New York in 2015, but then I sort of had this hard landing, and then moved to LA, which was a lot softer.

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But I did come back at the end of 2018, and I've sort of been...

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This has been my base since.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So I'm curious about how you, growing up, like, how did you get into modeling, acting? Was this by accident? Was it something that you really were ambitious about? it was a little bit of- an accident, but also a little bit of both.

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I think, like, when it happened, I was so excited that There was no question that I was, going to pursue it and, and sort of, like, see where it went.

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But, I was in law school.

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I actually went to law school when I was in India, and I was in my third year of law school, and I ended up on a reality show, honestly.

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It was, Model Hunt.

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but It was my friend who was a line producer on the show and, and he wanted help with location scouting, because, they were coming to my hometown.

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And then the executive producer on the show said, "Oh, you should just be, you should just audition.

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You should just be on the show."

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And I, I was like, "Uh, absolutely not."

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then I had all of these, negotiations with them about what...

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'Cause it was kind of embarrassing.

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You know, reality TV at the time, like now it's everywhere, but at the time it was like, "This is weird."

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so I didn't, I didn't wanna be on national TV and, have to do embarrassing things like sell a shampoo in the audition or something.

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So they just kinda, softened it for me.

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But at the end of that show, I, I got a contract.

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I got a modeling contract with Elite in Bombay.

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and it sort of, that's where it all kind of began, though I went back to school, honestly, because I had, two more years of school to get through, so yeah.

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Mm.

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Yeah.

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So went back and finished the law degree but were also modeling on the side? Yeah.

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I mean, I'm, South Indian, you know? It's sort of, like, in my culture, like, I cannot not finish school.

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It's also, like, very different in, in India, and at the time I...

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it was, this was, what, 2008-ish.

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I mean, you don't have the opportunity in India to sort of just, quit school and, just roll with it like you do here because there's a lot of...

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First, there's a lot of competition, and there aren't, like...

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You can't just be a waitress and, do, like, serving jobs to get by.

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Like, it doesn't work like that.

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It wouldn't pay anything at all because labor is, you know, so abundant back home.

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so you have to have to finish your university degree.

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It's just, that's just how it works.

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And then I took a year off to see if there was anything to this whole modeling thing, and then it's just kinda, been that for 14 years.

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Yeah.

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Oh, wow, so it, took off in that, that year in Bombay? Took off at the end of that year after I graduated.

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So, like, 2010 I was on the cover of a couple of magazines, and then I was sort of working pretty, Pretty often, quite a lot actually, in Bombay.

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But again, I was sort of grounded to India.

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There wasn't this opportunity to travel.

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The way that modeling works is that you have, four, sort of epicenters in the world, like London, Milan, and, and New York, and, and, Paris.

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And then these me- uh, the agencies in these cities have scouts that kinda like go around the world and, do these scouting, recces to find, girls.

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And people weren't coming out to India to, scout for faces.

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Like, it wasn't just, Yeah, we weren't, we weren't really, considered, uh, some kind of, capital for that.

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Like, people would go to Brazil- Mm-hmm and, uh, like, like South America.

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and then the Eastern European countries had a lot of scouting and modeling agents there, like Russia and Ukraine and things like that.

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But not so much India.

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A- and, uh, yeah, that started changing a little bit.

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That's kind of when I came over to the United States.

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so you got, you got kind of, like, scouted, in Bombay and ended up moving to the States? Yeah, exactly.

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I remember, my agent in Bombay, randomly calling me, I was in a movie theater, and saying, "Oh, there's this agency in New York that is interested in signing you and bringing you over to New York."

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And I remember I was already, like, old for a model.

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Like, I was 27 at the time, and I remember, telling my agent, "Are you sure? Like, do they know I'm not 16 and I'm not, you know, 5'11?" But it didn't matter at the time.

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I think it was...

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Things were shifting rapidly, and you just had to sort of look, look, look very, young and fit their criteria, and you were sort of in.

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So it was a little bit of...

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I guess it was a little serendipitous, honestly.

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It was right place, right time.

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But also that it was a little bit scary, because you kind of had to start over from scratch, and I was already kind of like a working model with quite a big, network in Bombay, 'cause it had been five years at the time that I'd lived there.

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So.

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Mm, so you had to kind of start over in, in the industry in New York.

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Yeah, 100%.

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Like, New York is one of those places where...

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And that, that's sort of what I love about New York also.

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It's sort of this place where it doesn't really give a shit, who you are or what you've done before that.

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You kind of s- come here and it's kind of, it's this equalizer, like, whether it's money or status or whatever.

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And it was something I really enjoyed about it when I first came here, but it was also, the thing that was really scary about it when you had to make, when I had to make the decision about coming, so yeah.

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Right.

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Right.

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So just, pick up and move to a whole new country, whole new city- Yeah and start over in your career.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Wow.

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but you went for it.

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You were, you were like, "Yes."

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Yeah, and there's things that softened that decision because, model agencies usually have, model apartments, and you can kind of, like, come and do, a three-month stint and see how it works and then move on.

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and then decide on whether you wanted to, uh- You know, find an apartment and make it more permanent or move.

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So I did do that.

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I, I came out in the summer of 2015.

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It was, like the worst winter.

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Like win- like summer hadn't begun yet.

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It was like mid-March, and I came like straight from the tropics, and I just remember going shopping for, outerwear, which obviously like in Bombay there's, there's really nothing that can, really work for the weather here.

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So I was completely unprepared.

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I remember like getting off the plane, and it was a blizzard.

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It was like the middle of a blizzard.

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It was so bad, like my teeth would hurt.

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Like I had to...

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I would walk in to CVS and buy ibuprofen because my, my teeth were...

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I mean, my body just wasn't used to that kind of cold, so it was really wild.

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Um- That's brutal.

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Yeah.

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It was pretty brutal, but I survived.

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00:13:09,228.7563416 --> 00:13:11,248.7573416
And then I came over the next year.

164
00:13:11,418.7553416 --> 00:13:14,988.7583416
So yeah, I spent like three months, and then I, I came back in 2016.

165
00:13:16,178.7573416 --> 00:13:16,808.7573416
Okay.

166
00:13:17,88.7573416 --> 00:13:27,722.53431206
So, uh, you gave an example when we were talking earlier about- Like, sort of like what the lifestyle was like for you, as you kind of moved into this stage in your career.

167
00:13:27,722.53431206 --> 00:13:36,752.53331206
You, you were like, "Well, Kate, I would get on a plane and fly to Paris, do the gig, and then fly back to New York," you know, like basically that same day.

168
00:13:37,472.53431206 --> 00:13:44,532.53431206
So did you see that coming, that you were gonna be traveling like that? Yeah, the thing is, that's just how you do it as a model.

169
00:13:44,532.53431206 --> 00:13:46,132.53431206
Like, that is the lifestyle.

170
00:13:46,132.53431206 --> 00:13:54,954.84712486
The lifestyle is, Sometimes you're shooting in the same city that you live in, which is great, so, you know, you go into the studio in the morning and you're done in the evening.

171
00:13:55,334.84512486 --> 00:14:03,164.84512486
And if you're not shooting in the city that you live in, you're kind of only booked specifically for the number of days that the shoot requires, because, everything is on a production budget.

172
00:14:03,174.84412486 --> 00:14:07,584.84412486
So, you know, you fly in, you fly in exactly for the required number of days, and you leave.

173
00:14:07,594.84612486 --> 00:14:13,34.84512486
So it would be like, I mean, sometimes you're flying domestically, and that works out great.

174
00:14:13,44.84712486 --> 00:14:18,781.50879153
You're, you're either flying in the morning, going straight to studio, coming back in the evening, which is actually, par for course, honestly.

175
00:14:18,791.50779153 --> 00:14:19,961.50879153
Everybody does this.

176
00:14:20,261.50879153 --> 00:14:25,881.50579153
But you're also in your 20s, so you're not sort of realizing the cost, on your body.

177
00:14:25,991.50979153 --> 00:14:30,911.50579153
And, it's also a little bit, it's sold as exciting and exhilarating.

178
00:14:30,911.50579153 --> 00:14:33,791.50779153
Like, when you're, you know, coming from...

179
00:14:34,1.50679153 --> 00:14:52,371.50279153
A lot of girls are from smaller villages even, towns, and you know, this is a job that kind of gives you this ability and exposure to, to travel that you probably wouldn't otherwise have, and, social mobility that is not probably available to your peers.

180
00:14:52,721.50579153 --> 00:14:54,211.50279153
And so you kind of...

181
00:14:54,851.50379153 --> 00:14:56,641.50579153
It's really exhilarating at first.

182
00:14:56,651.50679153 --> 00:15:03,801.50579153
You know, like, you're exposed to culture and you're, like, on flights all the time, and you feel a little bit of, a global citizen.

183
00:15:03,961.50779153 --> 00:15:10,51.50779153
But you know, the whole time, obviously you're unaware of what it's doing to your system, but Right Yeah.

184
00:15:10,121.50779153 --> 00:15:10,551.50779153
Right.

185
00:15:10,641.50779153 --> 00:15:11,371.50779153
You make a good point.

186
00:15:11,371.50779153 --> 00:15:13,471.50779153
If you're in your 20s, you can totally do that.

187
00:15:14,1.50779153 --> 00:15:14,361.50779153
Yeah.

188
00:15:14,431.50779153 --> 00:15:14,921.50779153
Yeah, yeah.

189
00:15:14,921.50779153 --> 00:15:25,568.1744582
I'm like in my 40s, started traveling like that, and then after three months of that like a book tour, where- Oh, yeah where it's like one da- you know, two days in a place, two days in a place, moving like that.

190
00:15:26,178.1734582 --> 00:15:39,448.1744582
And y- yes, there's like a fun kind of glamorous feeling to it, but then I was just, I was like, I couldn't continue to do that, you know? The effect that it had on like, all of this weird stuff happened to my ears.

191
00:15:39,678.1734582 --> 00:15:40,308.1734582
Like, I can't...

192
00:15:40,328.1754582 --> 00:15:42,978.1744582
Which is one of those organs associated with vata, right? Right.

193
00:15:43,138.1724582 --> 00:15:47,558.1724582
So I got, like my ears got sick that summer, and it took two years for them to heal.

194
00:15:47,928.1734582 --> 00:15:54,238.1744582
Just unexpected things, you know? Little weird, unexpected things that that amount of travel was doing to my body.

195
00:15:54,798.1724582 --> 00:15:59,288.1734582
Like, you had pain, like ear pain from the flying that wouldn't- No.

196
00:15:59,398.1714582 --> 00:16:01,781.50679153
No, it was like a skin thing.

197
00:16:01,861.50579153 --> 00:16:07,371.50679153
Like my Ayurvedic doctor was, was calling them little fellows, krimi, like, um- Oh, in your ear? bacteria.

198
00:16:08,401.50679153 --> 00:16:08,861.50679153
Yeah.

199
00:16:09,491.50279153 --> 00:16:09,801.50279153
Wow.

200
00:16:10,91.50879153 --> 00:16:15,78.23902698
I know, right? Which I think had something to do with, using earplugs all the time.

201
00:16:15,78.23902698 --> 00:16:15,548.23702698
Oh, I see.

202
00:16:15,548.23702698 --> 00:16:18,388.23802698
You know, like in hotels and on planes and that sort of thing.

203
00:16:18,688.23602698 --> 00:16:32,808.24702698
So, so I can only imagine, you know, what it was like for you to do that amount of travel, and we're definitely gonna get to start talking about your per- your personal journey, like how you weathered that or didn't weather that.

204
00:16:33,238.24402698 --> 00:16:50,328.244027
but one of the things that struck me, just observing you, like from afar, you know, like Instagram and that sort of thing, and I started to, I started to think about, you being, getting involved in modeling in this country, you know, what, 10, 12 years ago.

205
00:16:50,348.248027 --> 00:16:50,368.248027
Yeah.

206
00:16:50,988.247027 --> 00:16:57,28.242027
I feel like you didn't see so many Indian women being represented then.

207
00:16:57,38.243027 --> 00:17:04,258.244027
No, I think there was maybe six or seven girls in 2016 probably.

208
00:17:04,258.244027 --> 00:17:09,658.248027
I c- I mean, I can't be sure obviously, but it's gotten more over time.

209
00:17:09,948.246027 --> 00:17:12,134.247027
But- I don't know.

210
00:17:12,134.247027 --> 00:17:15,114.247027
Like, the fashion industry kind of swings constantly.

211
00:17:15,114.247027 --> 00:17:21,384.247027
Like, you think that there's going to be this sort of revolutionary change, and then all of a sudden it swings right back.

212
00:17:21,764.246027 --> 00:17:23,824.247027
I think you see it in, the body stuff.

213
00:17:23,854.247027 --> 00:17:44,687.5773603
Like, I remember 2019 there was a, really nice, kind of social change towards having, representation for, all kinds of bodies, in like commercial campaigns and things like that, and like sort of, like realizing that the anorexic, or like extremely skinny mold of like, uh, the Milan...

214
00:17:44,717.5803603 --> 00:17:48,867.5773603
Like, or like the 2000s were, unhealthy and, and there was a swing.

215
00:17:49,217.5773603 --> 00:17:54,777.5783603
And then everybody was so happy about that, and then all of a sudden you have like Ozempic, and we've kind of swung right back.

216
00:17:54,777.5783603 --> 00:18:08,380.9126936
And I mean, honestly, I think it's kind of worse now than it was in the past because, like I'm beginning to see some, you know, celebrity bodies and things like that, and it's- it's really kind of terrifying to look at.

217
00:18:08,380.9126936 --> 00:18:14,220.9136936
So that's always there in the fashion industry, and it's there with like representation as well.

218
00:18:14,550.9116936 --> 00:18:23,970.9076936
So there's this swing, and then all of a sudden every- and that's the trendy thing and everybody wants to do the thing that is, socially right in, in terms of messaging and things like that.

219
00:18:24,220.9106936 --> 00:18:29,840.9086936
And then all of a sudden when, when, when that's not necessary anymore, they sort of swing back, you know? Right.

220
00:18:29,890.9086936 --> 00:18:30,270.9086936
Yeah.

221
00:18:30,330.9116936 --> 00:18:31,380.9106936
That makes sense.

222
00:18:31,880.9066936 --> 00:18:33,920.9116936
And I've heard you use the word colorism.

223
00:18:33,930.9096936 --> 00:18:33,950.9096936
Yeah.

224
00:18:34,370.9046936 --> 00:18:46,384.9096936
Was this something that you experienced? Can you tell us about that? Yeah, I, I experienced a lot of colorism when I was in India, and I think it's still part of the system.

225
00:18:46,434.9096936 --> 00:18:46,954.9096936
It's...

226
00:18:47,374.9096936 --> 00:18:50,224.9096936
I, you know, I think of it as a colonial hangover.

227
00:18:50,644.9086936 --> 00:18:59,584.9106936
I'm sure everyone sort of kn- like, has some le- level of awareness about it now, and it's also, tied into the caste system and, if you're...

228
00:18:59,774.9106936 --> 00:19:19,151.5753603
And then there's whole, you know, in Asian countries, if you were brown that meant you worked out in the sun, and if you were wealthy, you didn't, and- Right all of these different kind of narratives that, essentially center whiteness or Eurocentric, features as, prized and, the, the thing that's beautiful and the thing that you aspire for.

229
00:19:19,431.5753603 --> 00:19:21,361.5763603
And I remember when I started working...

230
00:19:21,361.5763603 --> 00:19:29,71.5743603
Well, one of the things was I, I definitely had these features like bone structure that wasn't, specifically identifiable as Indian.

231
00:19:29,71.5773603 --> 00:19:32,551.5753603
So I do remember getting the, "Oh, you don't look very Indian."

232
00:19:33,151.5753603 --> 00:19:34,421.5743603
Mm-hmm.

233
00:19:34,431.5743603 --> 00:19:39,612.5189043
so in terms of, racial identity, there was this, confusion around, my, features.

234
00:19:39,612.5189043 --> 00:19:46,382.5139043
And then there was the, "Oh, but you're, you're too dark to do commercial work specifically."

235
00:19:46,442.5119043 --> 00:19:51,252.5139043
Like, commercial work was, like, beauty and hair and, and, money, money.

236
00:19:51,252.5149043 --> 00:19:55,822.5129043
Like, "You're too, you're too dark to be aspirational enough for commercial work."

237
00:19:55,822.5139043 --> 00:19:57,132.5169043
I remember, hearing that.

238
00:19:57,582.5169043 --> 00:19:59,332.5179043
and that changed, obviously.

239
00:19:59,332.5179043 --> 00:20:07,672.5179043
Like, it changed with people that I worked with who loved me, who would sort of advocate to cast me when I was younger in, in shoots.

240
00:20:07,672.5209043 --> 00:20:16,446.6840633
And, and Bombay's also, a little bit of a small town, so after I, I, I built my, relationships in the industry, I would work.

241
00:20:16,976.6850633 --> 00:20:19,20.8492224
But, it's pretty insidious.

242
00:20:19,50.8462224 --> 00:20:25,3.5485791
It's been around for a long time, and the push, the resistance is on- ongoing.

243
00:20:25,709.5505791 --> 00:20:29,469.5505791
I do feel like the representation has become a lot better in, in India.

244
00:20:29,469.5505791 --> 00:20:32,589.5505791
I do see a lot of girls in the fashion industry.

245
00:20:32,599.5505791 --> 00:20:38,189.9347203
Like, when I started, you didn't bother becoming a model unless you could become a Bollywood star.

246
00:20:38,499.9347203 --> 00:20:48,610.5113822
Like, you didn't bother becoming a model unless, like, that route was available to you, because that was sort of the pipeline for big money and, big exposure.

247
00:20:48,620.5123822 --> 00:20:50,30.5113822
But that's changed.

248
00:20:50,40.5123822 --> 00:20:56,733.5127493
Like, that's not the only, career path available to you anymore, and that's also kind of been nice.

249
00:20:56,753.5117493 --> 00:20:57,953.5137493
Like, there's a diversification.

250
00:20:57,953.5137493 --> 00:21:04,643.5117493
I think social media was, like, hugely responsible for some of that, because people could kind of build their own platforms.

251
00:21:05,23.5117493 --> 00:21:07,263.5097493
but yeah, it was...

252
00:21:07,763.5097493 --> 00:21:09,73.5107493
It was a pretty wild...

253
00:21:09,543.5117493 --> 00:21:11,503.5107493
It's a pretty wild time, like colorism.

254
00:21:11,543.5117493 --> 00:21:13,883.5097493
It's like, it's basically racism, honestly, and casting.

255
00:21:13,933.5117493 --> 00:21:14,113.5097493
Mm-hmm.

256
00:21:14,143.5107493 --> 00:21:15,333.5107493
Mm-hmm.

257
00:21:15,903.5087493 --> 00:21:21,573.5117493
My, my first trip to India in the '90s, I saw all of the, entire aisles of fairness creams.

258
00:21:22,213.5097493 --> 00:21:22,433.5097493
Yeah.

259
00:21:22,493.5087493 --> 00:21:25,73.5107493
and that kind of blew my mind at the time, you know? Yeah.

260
00:21:25,73.5107493 --> 00:21:25,153.5107493
Yeah.

261
00:21:25,243.5087493 --> 00:21:26,673.5137493
Basically, I mean, my...

262
00:21:26,713.5137493 --> 00:21:30,743.5147493
I remember when, we had a cook, like she would use it.

263
00:21:31,123.5137493 --> 00:21:34,533.5117493
it was really, like, aimed at that economic class.

264
00:21:34,533.5137493 --> 00:21:37,3.5147493
I mean, the, the fairness cream ads were really wild.

265
00:21:37,3.5147493 --> 00:21:39,83.5127493
Like, growing up it was all over national TV.

266
00:21:39,93.5107493 --> 00:21:45,583.5157493
It was, like, this dark girl, like probably my skin tone, and then she would go into a job and she wouldn't get it.

267
00:21:45,853.5137493 --> 00:21:50,371.6347493
Or, like the most, common ones were the, the marriage ones, where, the husband's...

268
00:21:51,391.6337493 --> 00:22:04,691.6327493
The prospective husband's family would come to see the girl, and then the girl is too dark and they are disappointed, and then she suddenly uses this bleaching cream and she's, eight shades lighter, and all of a sudden the world is her oyster, and it's like, ah.

269
00:22:05,521.6327493 --> 00:22:05,951.6327493
Right.

270
00:22:05,981.6317493 --> 00:22:06,351.6317493
Right.

271
00:22:06,451.6297493 --> 00:22:08,651.6247493
I can picture that ad, absolutely.

272
00:22:08,651.6247493 --> 00:22:08,741.6307493
Yeah.

273
00:22:08,741.6307493 --> 00:22:09,211.6307493
Yeah.

274
00:22:09,271.6297493 --> 00:22:12,361.6257493
The messaging was everywhere, and it was so insidious.

275
00:22:12,361.6257493 --> 00:22:13,981.6277493
It was pretty crazy, honestly.

276
00:22:14,311.6307493 --> 00:22:14,881.6307493
Yeah.

277
00:22:14,881.6307493 --> 00:22:15,124.962416
Yeah.

278
00:22:15,124.962416 --> 00:22:28,401.6387493
I mean, and kind of amazing, though, how you describe potentially being in the right place at the right time or, or, you know, in the industry shifting in such a way that, that what you look like became the thing.

279
00:22:28,441.6397493 --> 00:22:32,161.6307493
I mean, you were, like, model of the year at one point, right? You had this huge L'Oréal contract.

280
00:22:32,731.6337493 --> 00:22:33,221.6337493
Yeah.

281
00:22:33,231.6337493 --> 00:22:40,341.6297493
I, I honestly, I still don't really know exactly what it was that shifted.

282
00:22:40,411.6217493 --> 00:22:52,107.2526453
I think I was very dogged in, In my collaborative efforts, I, I remember for, initially for quite a while, basically doing a lot of work for free.

283
00:22:52,577.2526453 --> 00:22:53,887.2526453
essentially I would...

284
00:22:53,897.2516453 --> 00:22:59,577.2516453
And I would kinda semi-produce it, the concept, and, and, reach out to the photographer and the makeup artist and the stylist.

285
00:22:59,577.2516453 --> 00:23:05,77.2526453
And for me, it was cr- it was, I guess it was creative expression, and it was fun, and it was exciting.

286
00:23:05,687.2526453 --> 00:23:06,77.2536453
I don't know.

287
00:23:06,77.2546453 --> 00:23:09,247.2536453
And then you have this delusion of youth, I think maybe a little bit.

288
00:23:09,577.2536453 --> 00:23:24,393.923312
So when you have, like, agents who k- who are kind of dinosaurs in the industry saying, "This is not going to be a possible option," I'm like, "Well, uh, I, I don't know if I believe that," you know? And then I would, just, reach out to people who sort of validated the, o- opposite, perspective.

289
00:23:24,403.921312 --> 00:23:31,33.923312
So I kind of had this sort of, uh, tug of war going on, and I just sort of like...

290
00:23:31,33.923312 --> 00:23:37,743.922312
I, I was at this mindset at the time where I was like, "Well, I'm just gonna give it a year anyway, and then if it doesn't work, I'm gonna do my master's and, see what happens."

291
00:23:38,233.923312 --> 00:23:43,233.920312
So there was just a, it was just a lot more kinda low stakes at the time.

292
00:23:43,233.923312 --> 00:23:44,473.922312
Like, I was 20- 22.

293
00:23:44,473.922312 --> 00:23:50,843.924312
I'd just finished my law degree, and I was like, "Let's see what will happen, and then if it doesn't happen, fine, whatever."

294
00:23:50,893.919312 --> 00:23:54,63.922312
And then it just sort of kind of started happening.

295
00:23:54,63.925312 --> 00:23:55,323.919312
I think there were enough people...

296
00:23:55,503.920312 --> 00:24:09,63.934312
Like, the fashion industry itself is full of creatives that do like pushing the envelope, and i- in Bombay spec- specifically, and, that was my experience, and they were excited about, just, you know, pushing things.

297
00:24:09,63.935312 --> 00:24:14,3.930312
And it, it was, it was a fun time, honestly, and, and good things came out of it, so.

298
00:24:14,93.934312 --> 00:24:14,703.934312
Mm.

299
00:24:15,173.928312 --> 00:24:15,543.928312
Yeah.

300
00:24:16,523.930312 --> 00:24:23,23.925312
When I research you, what comes to the forefront about you and your modeling career is advocacy.

301
00:24:23,523.929312 --> 00:24:36,433.925312
And I, I can imagine that I, or I project that you felt a certain responsibility because of the visibility that you had and, and that s- that's what comes out about you when I look online.

302
00:24:37,3.925312 --> 00:24:37,113.925312
Yeah.

303
00:24:37,123.927312 --> 00:24:37,933.929312
So is...

304
00:24:38,263.927312 --> 00:24:45,697.931312
Were you aware? I mean, was that one of your missions? You know what's, interesting is, I think maybe it was my educational background.

305
00:24:45,707.931312 --> 00:24:52,47.931312
The, uh, advocacy came first, and then the opportunities followed the advocacy.

306
00:24:52,467.931312 --> 00:24:57,727.930312
And, I think it was sort of like a precursor to, what is now happening on social platforms.

307
00:24:57,747.931312 --> 00:25:01,847.930312
You know, like, people are using their voices, and it's pretty great.

308
00:25:01,857.931312 --> 00:25:13,517.926312
And, you know, there's, they are, also expressing and articulating nuanced, opinions that maybe in the past, you wouldn't see that because, like, your newspaper isn't publishing that.

309
00:25:13,517.927312 --> 00:25:16,317.928312
But now everyone has, this publishing, platform.

310
00:25:16,337.925312 --> 00:25:21,467.926312
And I was, doing a little bit of that at the time, and, and I was doing it because it was just...

311
00:25:21,857.925312 --> 00:25:32,637.923312
Well, one, it was personal, and then it was also interesting because I was able to sort of use my other skill sets in this space where I, I, when I couldn't a- as a model.

312
00:25:32,667.923312 --> 00:25:37,817.925312
You know, like, as a model, there were very specific things that I could do, and then there was, like, a, there was a boundary.

313
00:25:37,827.923312 --> 00:25:41,917.927312
And, this just gave me an opportunity to sort of flex my brain in different ways.

314
00:25:41,927.925312 --> 00:25:47,717.933312
And then the, the opportunities started coming because there were people, you know, relating to it.

315
00:25:47,717.933312 --> 00:25:51,257.933312
I think it was a, it was a relatability thing.

316
00:25:51,257.933312 --> 00:25:57,337.926312
And then suddenly, I, I imagine when you have, thousands of people sort of relating to it, like, you have brands interested.

317
00:25:57,337.926312 --> 00:26:05,224.5979787
It's kind of like, um- Right a bit of a pipeline there because I was also, kind of a public-facing, job modeling.

318
00:26:05,574.5969787 --> 00:26:30,461.2646453
maybe not as much as acting or whatever, but you know, you have, a, like a public-facing, face, and then they're also doing advocacy work, and they also have, the ability to kind of have conversations, so that was a little bit of a fit, you know? I guess I was doing, personal branding without realizing I was doing personal branding, but I was doing it because I was passionate about the thing that I was doing, right.

319
00:26:30,561.2556453 --> 00:26:31,281.2606453
It comes forward.

320
00:26:31,281.2606453 --> 00:26:36,421.2606453
I mean, if I read an interview with you, you know, from a magazine, it's, that's what you're talking about.

321
00:26:36,421.2606453 --> 00:26:47,747.932312
Like, you're coming across as a, a pretty strong advocate for your causes, and, that also that you're aware that the visibility- Yeah of your career gives you a, reach.

322
00:26:48,627.931312 --> 00:26:49,87.931312
Yeah.

323
00:26:49,547.929312 --> 00:26:50,877.937312
And it seems like you used it well.

324
00:26:51,929.939312 --> 00:26:54,69.939312
I mean, I would hope so, but I can never tell.

325
00:26:54,69.939312 --> 00:26:58,421.6059787
I didn't have, a PR agent or something, you know? I wasn't- Mm-hmm like, trying to manufacture this.

326
00:26:58,421.6059787 --> 00:26:59,419.939312
But I did get lucky.

327
00:26:59,419.939312 --> 00:27:07,489.939312
I, I do know that there are people that maybe were doing the same thing but weren't getting the same platform because, pretty privilege is a real thing.

328
00:27:07,569.939312 --> 00:27:14,589.938312
and you're also anyway, in front of the camera as a job, and it just became kind of this natural consequence of that.

329
00:27:14,599.939312 --> 00:27:20,919.939312
So, uh, yeah, it was- Sure it was definitely a little bit of both.

330
00:27:21,408.6059787 --> 00:27:29,418.6059787
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331
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332
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333
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334
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335
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336
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337
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338
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339
00:28:26,288.6009787 --> 00:28:35,48.6039787
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340
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341
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342
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343
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344
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345
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346
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347
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348
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349
00:29:26,848.6059787 --> 00:29:39,616.6049787
New customers get 15% off their purchase I feel like folks are gonna start to notice we're talking about modeling in the past tense here which is something, but when I reached out to you, had no idea.

350
00:29:39,706.6059787 --> 00:29:43,646.6089787
Had no idea, that you were kind of moving into a different space in your life.

351
00:29:43,646.6089787 --> 00:29:46,386.6069787
So I would love to hear about...

352
00:29:46,396.6069787 --> 00:29:56,726.6069787
I mean, the first thing you, you said to me that struck me was that you slept for a year, like, kind of had to go into a, a s- place of rejuvenation, and it...

353
00:29:56,786.6069787 --> 00:30:17,586.5999787
You ha- have a lot to share about things that I don't think anyone knows about what it's like, to work in the modeling industry and, the pressure that's on you, from a sort of body, piece, as well as the travel, you know? So can you share with us about sort of how, how you started to notice the burnout? I mean, I didn't have to notice it.

354
00:30:17,636.5999787 --> 00:30:20,926.5999787
It was kind of like a slate slammed into me.

355
00:30:21,466.5999787 --> 00:30:34,276.5999787
There's so many pieces here, and it's kind of why I've, I've been sort of low-key with the modeling and stepped back, which has also been a little bit hard to do because it's been like a decade of forward-facing image building.

356
00:30:34,286.5999787 --> 00:30:34,306.5999787
Yeah.

357
00:30:34,526.5999787 --> 00:30:45,266.5999787
And then there was this moment where I had to make this choice of like, "Okay, well I've done all of this work, and, am I just gonna just let it go?" You know? Absolutely.

358
00:30:45,496.6009787 --> 00:30:52,776.5999787
And it's interesting because from, obviously from a mainstream conventional perspective, that's i- absolutely insane.

359
00:30:52,776.6009787 --> 00:30:59,706.5989787
Like, I, I ha- definitely had, an agent who was like, "You need to be posting every day from now on," like after the L'Oreal contract and all of that.

360
00:31:00,316.5969787 --> 00:31:06,896.5959787
And it was just not sustainable, and there was this part of me that felt like, like I'm not even a human being.

361
00:31:06,896.5989787 --> 00:31:09,66.5969787
Like I'm just expected to be this machine.

362
00:31:09,76.5989787 --> 00:31:12,876.5959787
And like the more successful I got, the more angry I got, honestly.

363
00:31:12,876.5959787 --> 00:31:15,156.5959787
The more successful I got, the more angry I got.

364
00:31:15,626.5959787 --> 00:31:18,956.5959787
and I just didn't wanna, be doing the things I was expected to be doing.

365
00:31:18,956.5959787 --> 00:31:24,66.5959787
And the, and the more successful I got, I also felt, more controlled suddenly by people who hadn't really...

366
00:31:24,116.5959787 --> 00:31:28,416.5939787
who wouldn't, in the past have given a shit about my career.

367
00:31:28,416.5949787 --> 00:31:42,26.5949787
But all of a sudden, now there were stakes, and now there was money to be made that could be big money, and, I needed to now be, you know, controlled and, and I needed to behave and present and, do specific things.

368
00:31:42,66.5939787 --> 00:31:43,906.5949787
And it just felt very, restrictive.

369
00:31:43,946.5929787 --> 00:31:45,806.5929787
And I've never been...

370
00:31:46,326.5929787 --> 00:31:47,806.5919787
I've never liked restriction.

371
00:31:47,816.5939787 --> 00:31:52,816.5949787
Like, I've never been the kind of person who res- responded well to someone telling me what to do.

372
00:31:52,826.5929787 --> 00:31:53,266.5929787
Mm-hmm.

373
00:31:53,446.5949787 --> 00:31:55,46.5929787
So I just stopped.

374
00:31:55,56.5919787 --> 00:31:59,146.5939787
But There were also very specific triggers that kind of, pushed me into burnout.

375
00:31:59,266.5959787 --> 00:32:10,356.5949787
I, I had a relationship that didn't work out at the time, and it was kind of a train wreck because he just sort of ghosted me after, a year and some change of into the relationship 'cause I wasn't...

376
00:32:10,666.5949787 --> 00:32:14,946.5919787
'cause we started having some conflict, and I was sort of prepared for that, but he wasn't.

377
00:32:14,976.5929787 --> 00:32:27,563.2606453
And then that was sort of combined with, burnout from work because I had crazy schedules, like flying to Paris at 5:30 PM, and going to the studio, and then flying back the next day to New York.

378
00:32:27,703.2606453 --> 00:32:30,333.2596453
And, you know, my body hasn't even recovered from jet lag yet.

379
00:32:30,353.2606453 --> 00:32:40,199.0437863
And so when that relationship crashed and burned, I basically had very severe physiological, reactions that I'd never had to a breakup before.

380
00:32:40,599.0447863 --> 00:32:43,179.7945298
And You know, I didn't have any tools for it.

381
00:32:43,189.7905298 --> 00:32:44,429.7955298
Like, my tool for...

382
00:32:44,439.7905298 --> 00:32:54,439.7935298
My tools for my life prior to that was yoga six days a week, and eating generally what I thought was a healthy lifestyle, like drinking very little.

383
00:32:54,439.7935298 --> 00:32:55,799.7925298
I didn't really smoke.

384
00:32:55,819.7955298 --> 00:32:59,439.7955298
I- You know, I thought I was healthy, et cetera.

385
00:32:59,839.7955298 --> 00:33:09,339.7955298
And, after that breakup, I had, panic attacks, insomnia, which were emotional as well, so, like, we know, there's a pipeline there, right, from the, the heart channel.

386
00:33:09,799.7955298 --> 00:33:12,549.7955298
but also I was severely depleted.

387
00:33:12,559.7945298 --> 00:33:14,309.7955298
Like, I didn't really have a menstrual cycle.

388
00:33:14,309.7955298 --> 00:33:15,429.7955298
I had adrenal fatigue.

389
00:33:15,439.7955298 --> 00:33:21,669.7965298
I had, chronic fatigue, like some would say depression, but it was like I couldn't get out of bed.

390
00:33:21,669.7965298 --> 00:33:26,29.7955298
If, if I could get out of bed and take a shower and brush my teeth that, that day, it, it was a win.

391
00:33:26,319.7945298 --> 00:33:32,939.7935298
Like, if I could make my bed, that was, like, a huge win, 'cause I'm like, "Oh, I'm doing something that is unnecessary for my survival."

392
00:33:33,299.7935298 --> 00:33:33,479.7955298
Mm-hmm.

393
00:33:33,579.7965298 --> 00:33:35,989.7945298
so it was pretty, in my face.

394
00:33:36,19.7945298 --> 00:33:37,269.7935298
There was nothing I could do about it.

395
00:33:37,279.7965298 --> 00:33:51,129.7905298
At the time, I was sort of seeing somebody who was more like a clinical psychiatrist and less therapist, and, she was sort of pushing for me to have blood tests, blood work done, which she was probably right about, because I was 100% malnourished.

396
00:33:51,439.7935298 --> 00:33:57,289.7925298
But she was also pushing for, like, benzos and, just to have them on me as, panic medication.

397
00:33:57,829.7915298 --> 00:33:57,969.7895298
Mm-hmm.

398
00:33:57,979.7935298 --> 00:33:59,39.7885298
And I just...

399
00:33:59,489.7875298 --> 00:34:02,849.7935298
I've always been, like, averse to the idea of medicating.

400
00:34:02,956.4601965 --> 00:34:11,976.4611965
I'm not saying that they don't have their place, but I just remember at the time thinking, "I don't feel mentally well, and I don't think that I should be responsible for self-medicating."

401
00:34:12,36.4661965 --> 00:34:20,996.4601965
Like, being responsible for self-medicating with a drug that is characterized as highly addictive, I don't really wanna be responsible for that.

402
00:34:21,36.4661965 --> 00:34:24,56.4611965
And then it was kind of like a fight with my psychiatrist.

403
00:34:24,56.4631965 --> 00:34:31,456.4621965
Like, I- every, every session I had, I had to sort of push back against her pushing me to consider this.

404
00:34:31,906.4621965 --> 00:34:41,336.4581965
And so I, gave that up and, then it was kind of surviving while trying to have a career and, trying to actually just, like, sleep, honestly.

405
00:34:41,336.4581965 --> 00:34:41,366.4591965
Mm-hmm.

406
00:34:41,366.4591965 --> 00:34:42,696.4621965
Like, I couldn't sleep anymore.

407
00:34:43,86.4631965 --> 00:34:44,826.4611965
I didn't know what would send me over the edge.

408
00:34:44,826.4611965 --> 00:34:52,746.4641965
Like, there was this one time I w- was sitting in a car on the way to JFK, and everything was great, and then all of a sudden there was like...

409
00:34:53,296.4631965 --> 00:34:55,76.4681965
I don't even know what the trigger was, honestly.

410
00:34:55,76.4681965 --> 00:34:58,626.4581965
Like, I started having a panic attack onset, and it lasted for, three days long.

411
00:34:59,156.4661965 --> 00:35:03,366.4661965
And then I was going for a job, so I, like, finished the shoot, and then I couldn't sleep.

412
00:35:03,846.4531965 --> 00:35:08,156.4661965
And I was supposed to essentially fly to LA, finish the job, fly out the next day.

413
00:35:08,156.4661965 --> 00:35:12,306.4521965
I just ended up staying in LA for 15 days because I absolutely couldn't...

414
00:35:12,756.4571965 --> 00:35:15,666.4581965
The thought of getting on a flight terrified me.

415
00:35:16,528.4621965 --> 00:35:16,758.4621965
At the time.

416
00:35:16,758.4621965 --> 00:35:17,148.4621965
Yeah.

417
00:35:17,558.4621965 --> 00:35:21,668.4621965
I remember the first thing that helped me go to sleep was really just, I guess, khichdi.

418
00:35:21,878.4621965 --> 00:35:25,768.4621965
At the time, again, I didn't have the words for what was happening.

419
00:35:25,768.4621965 --> 00:35:27,298.4621965
Like, I just thought it was nostalgic.

420
00:35:27,628.4621965 --> 00:35:37,948.4621965
But I basically made myself, dal rice and ghee with, a pickle on the side, and that was the first thing that helped me take, an afternoon nap after like two and a half days of, no sleep.

421
00:35:37,958.4611965 --> 00:35:40,738.4611965
I literally, I felt like I was in a jump scare horror movie.

422
00:35:41,328.4621965 --> 00:35:44,878.4601965
it was so bad, and that's when I kinda had, this ding go off in my head.

423
00:35:44,878.4621965 --> 00:35:49,28.4621965
Like, okay, there's something here with the food, and That was the portal for me.

424
00:35:49,138.4651965 --> 00:35:55,245.1318632
and I also, just started slowly kind of easing away from essentially what I felt like I...

425
00:35:55,315.1298632 --> 00:36:05,961.7975298
extracting from myself, you know? Like, constant performance, constant output, with no real, focus on any resourcing ever.

426
00:36:06,451.7975298 --> 00:36:10,451.8025298
And so you found food to be one of the tools to bring you back.

427
00:36:10,511.7995298 --> 00:36:11,941.7975298
yeah, it was my first tool.

428
00:36:11,961.7965298 --> 00:36:14,241.7935298
It helped me kind of...

429
00:36:14,631.7945298 --> 00:36:30,5.1348632
At least it helped my brain, and it helped me sort of put my sleep back on track, and then it was, like, a whole, cascade of, you know, like, this portal of, trauma work and, somatic modalities, then craniosacral therapy.

430
00:36:30,15.1368632 --> 00:36:33,755.1408632
I I fired my psychiatrist, and then I started reading.

431
00:36:33,995.1338632 --> 00:36:39,25.1368632
I read Body Keeps the Score by, bessel van der Kolk Oh the German guy.

432
00:36:39,325.1368632 --> 00:36:41,595.1368632
and then I read Myth of Normal.

433
00:36:41,675.1368632 --> 00:36:54,871.8025298
And a friend of mine, gave me this amazing book called Attached when I broke up with my boyfriend, which was a relationship that sort of sent me into not being able to ignore or suppress or dissociate- Mm-hmm from my feelings.

434
00:36:55,401.8035298 --> 00:37:01,341.8025298
And I remember, reading it and, and identifying myself in my, in my attachment style.

435
00:37:01,781.8025298 --> 00:37:14,591.8025298
And, that's kind of when I was like, "Okay, there's, a whole, side of my life that I have essentially left completely unaddressed because I have been in this chase for so long."

436
00:37:15,71.8015298 --> 00:37:24,18.4631965
and it felt like, to the outside world, in some respects it felt like I built all this and I just let it go.

437
00:37:24,48.4631965 --> 00:37:29,78.4631965
But for me internally, it felt like I built all this so that I could get here so that I could do the work.

438
00:37:29,508.4651965 --> 00:37:39,768.4721965
because I was never, until that moment, at a point in my life where I was financially secure enough to be able to make that call, or desperate enough to be able to make that call.

439
00:37:39,818.4721965 --> 00:37:43,208.4671965
Like, the crisis hadn't converged yet, you know? Mm-hmm.

440
00:37:43,208.4711965 --> 00:37:46,491.8085298
And it's like, there's no way I can keep extracting from myself."

441
00:37:46,511.8045298 --> 00:37:48,951.8105298
Like, I don't have a menstrual cycle.

442
00:37:48,951.8105298 --> 00:37:50,71.8045298
I don't have sleep.

443
00:37:50,625.1438631 --> 00:37:51,695.1448631
this is pretty bad.

444
00:37:51,695.1448631 --> 00:37:57,955.1428631
Like, if I ignore this, I feel like this is gonna turn into something much worse, you know? Right.

445
00:37:57,955.1458631 --> 00:38:06,485.1408631
So you didn't really have a choice- One of the things I've heard you talk about in this process is self-worth, which is so- something I could relate to.

446
00:38:06,485.1408631 --> 00:38:24,965.1438631
You know? Like, if I got in a position where I couldn't work, you know, and build in the way I've been building for, like two decades, I feel like that would be huge, right? And when one does start to realize, like, how much we outsource our feeling of self-worth to our productivity or our, our outward success, that sort of thing.

447
00:38:24,965.1498631 --> 00:38:30,65.1488631
So I, you know, would love to hear you talk about how that has felt for you.

448
00:38:30,75.1508631 --> 00:38:30,95.1508631
Yeah.

449
00:38:30,705.1408631 --> 00:38:32,25.1438631
The goods, the bads.

450
00:38:32,965.1498631 --> 00:38:33,315.1498631
Yeah.

451
00:38:33,315.1498631 --> 00:38:35,645.1428631
It was a really, really hard journey.

452
00:38:36,865.1438631 --> 00:38:39,185.1438631
I'm not gonna- No doubt I think it's still, a work in progress.

453
00:38:39,205.1408631 --> 00:38:41,205.1408631
It's a little bit like- Well, I don't know.

454
00:38:41,325.1408631 --> 00:38:43,615.1408631
I, I, I was gonna say it's a little bit like grief.

455
00:38:43,615.1408631 --> 00:38:44,745.1408631
It kind of stays with you.

456
00:38:44,745.1408631 --> 00:38:46,275.1408631
Like, it's always there.

457
00:38:46,735.1408631 --> 00:38:48,505.1408631
it's like- Mm-hmm deep trauma work.

458
00:38:48,505.1408631 --> 00:38:51,225.1408631
It's like a product of shame.

459
00:38:51,225.1408631 --> 00:39:11,401.3988631
And, like, I was identified with complex trauma, which is, I think m- like now that I'm on, like year five of this journey, like I had my burnout, like experience in 2022, so it's been exactly four years and, I just, I realize now on, on this side of that, that it's probably much more common than we think.

460
00:39:11,411.3988631 --> 00:39:14,151.4008631
Like, complex trauma- Right is much more- Yeah common.

461
00:39:14,171.4018631 --> 00:39:25,121.4028631
Because I don't know a single friend of mine who's South Asian who can say that they're from a family of origin that attuned to them as children.

462
00:39:25,501.4008631 --> 00:39:31,351.4008631
Generally, it's like a, "This is what you need to do in order to belong to this family.

463
00:39:31,601.4028631 --> 00:39:33,121.3998631
This is how you need to behave.

464
00:39:33,411.3998631 --> 00:39:35,591.3998631
This is what you need to be studying.

465
00:39:35,851.3988631 --> 00:39:42,131.4038631
This is what you need to be presenting in the world as in order to make us feel proud of you."

466
00:39:42,601.3988631 --> 00:39:43,21.3998631
Mm-hmm.

467
00:39:43,131.3978631 --> 00:39:44,531.4038631
And et cetera, and et cetera.

468
00:39:44,531.4038631 --> 00:39:52,131.3988631
And, and of course, then you have stacked over that maybe, your parents have, marital issues, which my parents definitely did.

469
00:39:52,161.4028631 --> 00:39:52,941.4038631
They're divorced.

470
00:39:52,941.4038631 --> 00:40:15,993.5788632
And then on top of that you have a hard school system where, your teachers are not exactly nice people, and then, emotional abuse and physical abuse, because there's very much like in Brown families, the spare the rod, spoil the child kind of energy, which is honestly, I think it's, still pretty prevalent and it's really, really terrible.

471
00:40:15,993.5788632 --> 00:40:19,823.5808631
It really fucked my nervous system, which I hadn't realized.

472
00:40:19,823.5828632 --> 00:40:27,113.5768631
I mean, I realized at 35 when I was in trauma therapy that I'd probably been in fight or flight for about three decades.

473
00:40:27,643.5828631 --> 00:40:32,593.5808631
and that was messing with basically everything.

474
00:40:32,593.5868631 --> 00:40:48,780.2555298
I mean, I was making every single decision out of a sense of fear and inadequacy and shame and feeling like, I just wasn't inherently enough just 'cause I existed, right? I had to prove that my existence had its place.

475
00:40:48,956.9221965 --> 00:40:50,706.9221965
And that looked very specific.

476
00:40:51,96.9211965 --> 00:40:57,616.9211965
That looked like a certain amount of money, that looked like a certain amount of image, that looked like my body looked a certain way.

477
00:40:58,296.9211965 --> 00:41:09,926.9201965
There were all of these sort of, external markers for what that looked like, and had to look like in order to convert psychologically to, "I'm worthy, to exist."

478
00:41:10,86.9191965 --> 00:41:19,536.9161965
And there was this moment where I realized, right, like, if evolutionarily as human beings, if your tribe thought you weren't worthy to exist, I mean, you probably...

479
00:41:19,546.9201965 --> 00:41:23,196.9161965
You died if you were thrown out of your, family of origin.

480
00:41:23,416.9181965 --> 00:41:25,706.9221965
Like, quite literally, right? So, like- Yeah.

481
00:41:26,56.9171965 --> 00:42:00,840.2525298
survival fear of your family telling you that you're not inherently valuable enough to exist means that somewhere deep down in my subconscious I think I'm gonna die, and, like, all my decisions are being made from this, really dark place And so there was this, aha moment where in therapy I realized that, I'm kind of like my worst abuser, because I'd sort of internalized the messaging, and then I had been controlling myself to sort of, make myself good enough to be, alive.

482
00:42:01,550.2525298 --> 00:42:02,120.2525298
Right.

483
00:42:02,320.2515298 --> 00:42:04,650.2545298
I wanna say most of us probably do that.

484
00:42:05,310.2495298 --> 00:42:05,830.2495298
Yeah.

485
00:42:05,990.2495298 --> 00:42:08,650.2485298
You know? it's so normal actually, we don't even question it.

486
00:42:08,740.2475298 --> 00:42:23,889.1944018
I remember people assumed, especially in 2021 when I had all of this, press come out around being the beauty ambassador, for L'Oréal, and, having this global beauty contract, which in modeling is kind of like a little bit of a holy grail.

487
00:42:23,889.1944018 --> 00:42:39,322.5237351
But also, there hadn't been an Indian model who had signed an exclusive beauty contract, which essentially means that you get paid a lot of money to not work with any other cosmetic brand, because you're exclusively the face of this one entity.

488
00:42:39,362.5237351 --> 00:42:51,325.8550685
And, I just remember that there's not a single person who met me in that era of my life that would assume that I had shame or self-worth issues, the picture didn't present like that.

489
00:42:51,355.8570685 --> 00:42:53,825.8550685
You know? The picture presented very, very differently.

490
00:42:53,895.8580685 --> 00:42:57,202.5197351
And, I think a lot of us are, masking a lot.

491
00:42:57,242.5187351 --> 00:42:59,189.1834018
it was a lot of energy to mask.

492
00:42:59,239.1834018 --> 00:43:13,949.1834018
It's been a, it's been a huge personal growth journey- To realize how much psychic energy and physiological energy goes into performance and masking.

493
00:43:14,539.1824018 --> 00:43:15,809.1814018
and it's really crazy.

494
00:43:15,869.1824018 --> 00:43:22,179.1824018
It's things I could be doing, you know, using to be creative and to, connect with people.

495
00:43:22,519.1824018 --> 00:43:27,529.1824018
I I mean, what, that was actually one of, the most direct outcomes in the last four years.

496
00:43:27,559.1814018 --> 00:43:31,718.2994018
It's having energy for relationships, relational dynamics.

497
00:43:31,998.2974018 --> 00:43:38,291.6307351
I just remember, like, I had, a zero tolerance policy for social relationships because they just drained me.

498
00:43:38,741.6327351 --> 00:43:47,691.6327351
I would do it for work, and I had, basically zero energy to build social community because there's no space left.

499
00:43:47,691.6327351 --> 00:43:53,551.6337351
You know? There's all of this energy going into controlling my image and controlling how I present and, you know.

500
00:43:53,561.6337351 --> 00:43:53,991.6337351
Right.

501
00:43:54,81.6307351 --> 00:43:54,341.6307351
Right.

502
00:43:54,341.6327351 --> 00:43:54,451.6327351
Energy.

503
00:43:54,451.6337351 --> 00:43:57,101.6327351
So you just wanna be, like, home alone the rest of the time.

504
00:43:57,101.6327351 --> 00:43:57,546.6317351
Yeah.

505
00:43:57,546.6317351 --> 00:43:57,991.6307351
Yeah.

506
00:43:57,991.6307351 --> 00:43:58,561.6307351
Yeah.

507
00:43:59,281.6317351 --> 00:44:07,951.6307351
And also, one of the things that happens when you haven't done the work around healing shame is that you basically surround yourself with people that kind of reinforce that same message.

508
00:44:08,391.6307351 --> 00:44:10,251.6337351
So it's a, it's like a recurring loop.

509
00:44:10,281.6377351 --> 00:44:12,321.6337351
You know? And you don't know you're doing it.

510
00:44:12,781.6397351 --> 00:44:17,771.6457351
I remember when I realized, there was this, really crazy therapy session where I...

511
00:44:18,971.6427351 --> 00:44:24,381.6427351
You know, my whole life until that moment I had sort of seen modeling as a serendipitous occurrence.

512
00:44:24,921.6477351 --> 00:44:27,651.6467351
And then in that session, I mean, I love my therapist.

513
00:44:27,651.6467351 --> 00:44:29,41.6467351
She helped me pattern recognize.

514
00:44:29,81.6467351 --> 00:44:45,851.6427351
And I realized that the reason I had been good at navigating fashion as an industry w- was because it kind of mirrored the same toxic dynamics of my family of origin, and I was actually very good at navigating that.

515
00:44:45,851.6437351 --> 00:44:50,91.6437351
I was really good at people-pleasing when I had to be people-pleasing.

516
00:44:50,111.6457351 --> 00:44:52,930.6417351
I was really good at- Performing, impeccably.

517
00:44:53,10.6417351 --> 00:44:56,369.9227351
I was really good at controlling myself and my body.

518
00:44:56,669.9227351 --> 00:45:06,683.2560685
Those, those were all things that were drilled into me as Values that were to be, prized, honestly, in a South Asian family in order to make it, make it in the world.

519
00:45:06,703.2570685 --> 00:45:08,273.2560685
You know, be successful in the world.

520
00:45:08,293.2570685 --> 00:45:08,313.2570685
Yeah.

521
00:45:08,653.2560685 --> 00:45:10,613.2550685
I remember, I had this crazy message growing up.

522
00:45:10,623.2550685 --> 00:45:12,593.2550685
Like, my grandfather would say something like, "You should...

523
00:45:12,813.2550685 --> 00:45:14,63.2550685
You can be whatever you want.

524
00:45:14,73.2550685 --> 00:45:21,253.2560685
You can be like a janitor, or you could, like, sweep the streets, but you have to be the best, best street sweeper in the world."

525
00:45:21,253.2560685 --> 00:45:24,933.2590685
And I just remember, questioning that messaging when I grew older.

526
00:45:24,953.2590685 --> 00:45:26,383.2570685
I'm like, "That doesn't make any sense."

527
00:45:26,383.2590685 --> 00:45:40,258.2625685
I It was like, what, what does that even mean? when I questioned that messaging, I was with my husband, now husband, and we were on our first trip we were in Bangkok, and he was...

528
00:45:40,258.2625685 --> 00:45:40,638.2595685
I don't know.

529
00:45:40,638.2595685 --> 00:45:41,821.5929018
He was picking up pickleball or something.

530
00:45:41,821.5929018 --> 00:45:42,748.2615685
He was, like, shit at it.

531
00:45:42,758.2595685 --> 00:45:51,458.2575685
Like, he didn't, win, and was not exactly, top of class, you know? And I remember telling him, "Oh, like, I could never do that.

532
00:45:51,468.2615685 --> 00:45:54,818.2645685
Like, if I picked up something, I'd have to be, like, the best person in class at it."

533
00:45:54,818.2645685 --> 00:45:55,948.2585685
And he's like, "Oh, that's so sad.

534
00:45:55,948.2585685 --> 00:45:56,808.2635685
You never have any fun."

535
00:45:57,78.2625685 --> 00:45:57,438.2575685
I was like...

536
00:45:57,818.2605685 --> 00:45:59,728.2645685
And then I had this ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

537
00:45:59,728.2645685 --> 00:46:02,648.2625685
I was like, oh my God, he's so right.

538
00:46:02,648.2625685 --> 00:46:11,398.2615685
I never focus on having fun because I'm so focused on comparing myself to everybody else, and there's so much psychic energy going into that that I just forget to have fun.

539
00:46:11,968.2615685 --> 00:46:16,788.2615685
That makes so much sense, and is a great reminder for all of us, for sure.

540
00:46:16,798.2635685 --> 00:46:16,968.2635685
Yes.

541
00:46:17,358.2615685 --> 00:46:17,658.2615685
Yeah.

542
00:46:17,678.2605685 --> 00:46:18,38.2605685
Yes.

543
00:46:18,48.2635685 --> 00:46:18,428.2635685
Yeah.

544
00:46:18,858.2615685 --> 00:46:18,878.2615685
Yeah.

545
00:46:18,878.2615685 --> 00:46:54,478.2565685
I, I think it's something to, just to look at, you know? And, for listeners to take away from this episode is how we feel like we have to control so many things about ourselves, you know, and how we fit in our environments in order to be okay, you know, in order to- Yeah be like good people or, or whatever it is, you know? And it's, it's interesting, like for me working in wellness, I have to watch my face all the time, you know, doing reels and like all that kind of stuff, and I didn't start that way.

546
00:46:54,478.2575685 --> 00:47:09,938.2555685
You know, I was a very private person in the beginning, and then when I started publishing books it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like you have to do publicity for these books, or why write them, you know? So I like felt like I'm constantly taking one for the team, by- Mm-hmm by allowing for that visibility.

547
00:47:09,948.2565685 --> 00:47:09,968.2565685
Yeah.

548
00:47:10,508.2575685 --> 00:47:20,628.2555685
But then it's kind of come to a place with it where I'm like, oh, if like my eyes look all puffy, junked up, weird, you know, whatever it is, in a video, I'm like, "Well, we should post that."

549
00:47:20,958.2545685 --> 00:47:30,58.2545685
You know? Like we should- Yeah it should be real, and of course in the wellness industry, the pressure on us is always to look like the most healthy person, you know? Yeah.

550
00:47:30,188.2545685 --> 00:47:30,608.2545685
Yeah.

551
00:47:30,618.2555685 --> 00:47:33,998.2555685
Which is- That's right you know, not helpful.

552
00:47:34,98.2555685 --> 00:47:34,118.2555685
No.

553
00:47:34,128.2555685 --> 00:47:35,738.2545685
It should just be aspirational.

554
00:47:35,768.2565685 --> 00:47:37,208.2555685
That's like not how I do it.

555
00:47:37,208.2595685 --> 00:47:39,428.2595685
That's been my choice, not to do it that way.

556
00:47:39,908.2555685 --> 00:47:40,298.2555685
Yeah.

557
00:47:40,788.2605685 --> 00:47:48,260.5869018
So i'm s- really excited to kind of observe like where you go next and see what you do.

558
00:47:48,380.5869018 --> 00:47:52,870.7069018
I won't be surprised if you continue to be an advocate of some sort.

559
00:47:52,880.7079018 --> 00:48:08,209.7079018
I'm curious if you will go for visibility or if you'll go for privacy in your next chapter, you know? so I wanna ask you the l- okay, what's next, Nidhi Sunil, question, which maybe it's too soon.

560
00:48:08,449.7079018 --> 00:48:14,328.4229018
But how would you answer that today? I really, I really like what you said about, showing up as you are.

561
00:48:14,328.4229018 --> 00:48:16,328.4229018
Because, I mean, it's kind of what I feel like I'm doing today.

562
00:48:16,328.4229018 --> 00:48:17,788.4229018
Like, I'm on my menstrual cycle.

563
00:48:18,8.4229018 --> 00:48:19,98.4229018
I feel like shit.

564
00:48:19,118.4219018 --> 00:48:20,748.4229018
I refuse to put on makeup.

565
00:48:20,818.4229018 --> 00:48:23,48.4219018
it's something that I've had a problem with.

566
00:48:23,318.4229018 --> 00:48:37,891.7562351
I've been noticing the, the way that social media is trending towards, especially wellness, and I, I definitely have a problem with, how there is this, uh, perfectionism disguised as wellness.

567
00:48:38,361.7572351 --> 00:48:47,928.4269018
And it's, not realistic, and it's just one more place where you're stuck in this vicious loop of, finding what you think are toolkits to, optimize wellness.

568
00:48:47,928.4269018 --> 00:48:49,508.4279018
I hate that word, optimization.

569
00:48:49,858.4259018 --> 00:48:54,208.4239018
and it's, just, you know, another, universe for controlling your body.

570
00:48:54,938.4259018 --> 00:48:56,378.4249018
And I love how, like, Ayurveda kind of, like, decentralizes all of that.

571
00:48:56,378.4249018 --> 00:49:02,268.4279018
It, deconstructs it, decentralizes the, there's space to be a human being.

572
00:49:02,478.4269018 --> 00:49:06,58.4219018
I like that in Ayurveda it's like you, they want you to be a little pudgy.

573
00:49:06,68.4239018 --> 00:49:09,588.4289018
They want you to be a little- Yes like, plump, as a, as a woman.

574
00:49:09,928.4299018 --> 00:49:14,438.4279018
Because, you know, you're not gonna have capacity for fertility without fat.

575
00:49:14,438.4279018 --> 00:49:17,308.4299018
And I've noticed I sleep better with a little bit of fat on me.

576
00:49:17,648.4319018 --> 00:49:30,618.9059018
And I think the process has been I mean, every single layer of that deconstruction has been like a death, you know? It's been like something that's confronting for me because it's not validating.

577
00:49:30,678.9059018 --> 00:49:42,658.9059018
You are doing it in a little void, like in, in a, in, in your home, and you know how beneficial it is for you, and your internal reality is amazing.

578
00:49:43,28.9059018 --> 00:49:53,588.9029018
But you're not outside, nobody's clapping for you, nobody's putting you on the cover of a magazine for, having a pudgy stomach, you know? Because That's not how people perceive health, you know? And I'm, I'm not...

579
00:49:53,938.9049018 --> 00:49:54,908.9049018
I mean, I, I don't...

580
00:49:54,938.9049018 --> 00:49:58,358.9029018
Like, I know there'll be people who come for me and say, like, "You shouldn't encourage obesity."

581
00:49:58,358.9029018 --> 00:49:59,58.9029018
Like, of course.

582
00:49:59,78.9039018 --> 00:50:01,708.9019018
Like, there's, you know, there's a middle ground.

583
00:50:01,728.9059018 --> 00:50:39,390.6338563
And, I think it's a work in progress for me because I, I am not exactly sure how to position myself, but also I think primarily the question for me is how do I center my wellbeing, if I decide to do this, and when I decide to come out? What is that gonna look like where my health is, centered in my decision-making and in my, like, advocacy or whatever I choose to do? And I think it's not really a question that we're used to centering.

584
00:50:39,910.6378563 --> 00:50:58,880.6368563
Because we come inherently, most of us, from some level of shame, a lot of the questions that I used to ask myself before came from, "How do I prove myself? How do I be successful at this thing?" This is the goal, so I center the goal, and then all else is game, to be used in pursuance of that goal.

585
00:50:59,230.6378563 --> 00:51:22,980.6268563
But centering your wellbeing, and then having a goal, and okay, it's a part of your life, it's one of the things that you wanna do, but at the center of it is, "How am I gonna care for myself, and how am I gonna support myself and resource myself, and what does that look like?" Why do I have this thing that I'm doing? Because I'm interested in doing it, not because it is a message about me.

586
00:51:23,630.6348563 --> 00:51:30,790.4583354
and I think, that- framework has to sort of solidify itself before I, decide to go out there.

587
00:51:30,790.4583354 --> 00:51:40,410.4573354
But 100%, I think there's definitely some level of outward facing projects that, that I want to do because I think Ayurveda is an amazing, amazing tool.

588
00:51:40,630.4583354 --> 00:52:02,930.4563354
We haven't spent a lot of time talking about Ayurveda in this podcast, which is fine, but I think it's like, it's such an incredible beautiful philosophy and system for people to sort of, just decompress from the craziness of this, like mental conditioning that we have and, and find a new path for creativity.

589
00:52:03,260.4543354 --> 00:52:08,660.4593354
And it's, really awesome to, to create from having access, from having juice, you know? Yeah.

590
00:52:08,690.4583354 --> 00:52:16,544.0006215
Versus, flogging, a dead horse to, get its last, survival juice you know? Yes.

591
00:52:16,574.0016215 --> 00:52:17,783.9996215
To, to create a life.

592
00:52:17,883.9996215 --> 00:52:18,323.9996215
Yeah.

593
00:52:18,444.0006215 --> 00:52:18,954.0006215
Yeah.

594
00:52:19,4.0026215 --> 00:52:19,644.0016215
For sure.

595
00:52:19,664.0016215 --> 00:52:20,44.0016215
For sure.

596
00:52:20,204.0026215 --> 00:52:28,824.0026215
And we have that idea in Ayurveda of the ojas, you know, that's like this central, central component to immunity- Yeah and health, and, that's what the plumpness is.

597
00:52:28,844.0006215 --> 00:52:33,943.9966215
It's just the visual representation of, of having- Yeah that juice, you know? Exactly.

598
00:52:33,943.9986215 --> 00:52:34,954.0016215
That's what we're looking for.

599
00:52:35,293.9976215 --> 00:52:41,650.0016215
And I, I hear you saying that- it's like you're putting the juice first, and you'll move forward- Yeah from there.

600
00:52:42,580.0016215 --> 00:52:43,340.0016215
Yeah, exactly.

601
00:52:43,340.0016215 --> 00:52:46,416.6682882
I wanna put the juice first, and I wanna move forward from the juice.

602
00:52:46,446.6682882 --> 00:52:58,426.6692882
And it's al- it's, it's really awesome because so I got stuck in the vortex, right? Like, I have all this information now, I have all this data, like, complex trauma, evolutionary psychology, developmental blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

603
00:52:58,426.6692882 --> 00:53:15,182.3148319
And I'm like, "Okay, but, how do I actually implement this system in my life?" Like, first of all, how do I heal from this physiologically, not just have intellectual data? And then, how do I live the rest of my life, until I die? Like, it's really cool to, it feels like I'm going back to my roots and I'm like, "Okay, here we are.

604
00:53:15,182.3148319 --> 00:53:16,382.3168319
Like, here's this system."

605
00:53:16,802.3168319 --> 00:53:29,332.3158319
This system centers ojas, centers your life force energy, and teaches you how to resource yourself before you decide to expend it in any outward facing way.

606
00:53:30,2.3138319 --> 00:53:34,972.3088319
and it's, yeah, it's essentially what I'm learning to do right now.

607
00:53:35,622.3128319 --> 00:53:35,922.3128319
Yeah.

608
00:53:36,262.3118319 --> 00:53:39,402.3148319
And a huge work in progress, you know? And you'll always, like...

609
00:53:39,482.3128319 --> 00:53:53,82.3108319
I, I feel like for, for me personally, 'cause that's how I do it, i- is it's always this, push and shove, give and take thing, where an opportunity comes up and it's like, is it a yes or is it a no based on do I have the juice for that? Yeah.

610
00:53:53,252.3158319 --> 00:53:53,852.3098319
You know? Yeah.

611
00:53:53,852.3148319 --> 00:53:54,312.3168319
Right now.

612
00:53:54,312.3168319 --> 00:53:59,2.3128319
Like, does it feel like the right thing? Is it in line with this mission? Yeah.

613
00:53:59,12.3108319 --> 00:54:07,882.3118319
Which is ultimately- Juicy about being juicy and, and, maintaining that in the face of all of the other ambitions and desires that are present.

614
00:54:08,684.3118319 --> 00:54:10,554.3118319
Which is such an abundance-based mindset.

615
00:54:10,554.3118319 --> 00:54:11,184.3118319
It's not...

616
00:54:11,424.3118319 --> 00:54:13,864.3118319
Because the other one is, gotta jump on the opportunity.

617
00:54:13,864.3118319 --> 00:54:15,654.3118319
You gotta, strike when the iron is hot.

618
00:54:15,664.3118319 --> 00:54:17,454.3118319
You gotta say yes, yes, yes to everything.

619
00:54:17,454.3118319 --> 00:54:33,254.3118319
And it's, it was very powerful to, discover my, my no and sort of validate it myself, you know? It's like, "No, I don't have the energy for that," and to, to realize that that's actually a much saner way of decision-making than the opposite.

620
00:54:33,394.3118319 --> 00:54:36,674.3118319
and actually also much more abundance oriented than the opposite.

621
00:54:37,264.3118319 --> 00:54:37,544.3118319
Right.

622
00:54:37,554.3108319 --> 00:54:37,594.3108319
Yeah.

623
00:54:37,594.3108319 --> 00:54:40,154.3108319
Right, and then you're not picking up the pieces, five years from now.

624
00:54:40,184.3108319 --> 00:54:40,474.3108319
Yeah.

625
00:54:40,544.3118319 --> 00:54:47,774.3128319
So it- I think it's a beautiful answer to the question that you've shared with us of, you know, how you're looking at that question.

626
00:54:48,94.3108319 --> 00:54:57,974.3088319
I- because I think, a lot of people who listen to this podcast are either at a point or will be at a point or were recently at a point of transition in life, you know? Is that...

627
00:54:58,344.3098319 --> 00:55:00,904.3088319
I- yeah, I think it feels like a COVID thing, to be honest.

628
00:55:00,904.3088319 --> 00:55:02,384.3078319
it, it does feel like...

629
00:55:02,394.3058319 --> 00:55:03,824.3068319
It was a huge, it was a huge thing.

630
00:55:03,824.3068319 --> 00:55:08,204.3058319
I think a lot of people are just moved on with their lives, and it feels like, oh, COVID's over and we're, we're gone.

631
00:55:08,204.3058319 --> 00:55:10,494.3068319
But I think it, it was a very confronting time.

632
00:55:10,494.3068319 --> 00:55:16,974.3048319
A lot of us were in isolation for, long extended periods that, was not something that was normal for us before that.

633
00:55:17,34.3038319 --> 00:55:29,861.9468319
And I really want to honor that process because you don't really have to make, I think, in the past, if you'd asked me that question, I, I would have felt pressure to give you, an outline of, uh...

634
00:55:29,901.9408319 --> 00:55:43,548.6154986
And then also sort of have projects ready to say, "I'm doing this, and I'm, you know, doing that, and I have this, podcast that I'm working on, so, like, watch out for this next e-" You know, all of this stuff which is very, PR oriented, you know? Mm-hmm.

635
00:55:43,548.6154986 --> 00:55:55,408.6104986
And it's so different to kind of be on the other side of that and say, "Actually, I'm, I'm trying to figure out how I want to center, that question in my life.

636
00:55:55,428.6144986 --> 00:56:10,218.6234986
Like, what does it look like for me to actually center my wellbeing before I start making plans for what I wanna do with this new transition and this new space and this new career?" And maybe it's internal more than it is external facing.

637
00:56:10,278.6104986 --> 00:56:14,688.6204986
Though, I think that would be a little, pointless because I think everyone should have it.

638
00:56:14,688.6204986 --> 00:56:28,725.7149455
So it really does come from, for me, a place of, wanting to serve, other people, who don't have access to that information or who didn't have the privilege like I did to kind of take a step back from work and just, heal.

639
00:56:29,665.7139455 --> 00:56:29,935.7139455
Right.

640
00:56:29,996.1770636 --> 00:56:48,388.1800636
And It's inspiring, you know? And it's, uh- It's a viewpoint and a process which I'm happy to, to put that out there, you know, with this podcast, because we're all gonna end up there in one way or another at some point, and in a position in life like, you've been in, and have to unravel it, and make these choices.

641
00:56:48,448.1800636 --> 00:56:52,801.513397
So I kinda can't wait to see what, you know, what happens whenever it happens.

642
00:56:52,801.514397 --> 00:56:53,931.514397
I think it's gonna be very cool.

643
00:56:54,521.513397 --> 00:56:54,541.513397
Yeah.

644
00:56:54,551.514397 --> 00:57:01,771.514397
but before we let you move on to your, your healing process, you're gonna go make some kitchari and study for the Ayurveda exam.

645
00:57:02,691.514397 --> 00:57:03,201.514397
That's right.

646
00:57:03,201.514397 --> 00:57:05,601.514397
I'm studying for the Ayurveda exam currently.

647
00:57:06,541.512397 --> 00:57:09,751.513397
I would love- Yeah to ask you three rapid fire questions.

648
00:57:10,351.510397 --> 00:57:11,41.510397
Are you ready? Okay.

649
00:57:11,371.510397 --> 00:57:11,761.510397
Okay.

650
00:57:11,761.510397 --> 00:57:12,131.513397
Okay.

651
00:57:12,131.513397 --> 00:57:19,713.3702226
So first one is, what's the first thing that you do when you wake up? Oh, well, since Ayurveda, the first thing I do is scrape my tongue.

652
00:57:20,563.3702226 --> 00:57:28,143.3742226
Literally, the first thing I do is- Yeah I will walk to the bathroom and scrape my tongue, and, wash my face, and spray, rosewater on my face.

653
00:57:28,153.3752226 --> 00:57:28,173.3752226
Yeah.

654
00:57:28,550.0418893 --> 00:57:29,740.0418893
Yep, for sure.

655
00:57:30,180.0388893 --> 00:57:50,873.3762226
How about your first food or drink of the day? I'm still working on having breakfast before coffee because, I'm a human, but what I do do, and I kind of like give this away as a free to everyone, is eat dates with ghee, while I'm making my coffee so that I have some gut, lining thing happening.

656
00:57:51,303.3772226 --> 00:57:53,803.3812226
And also drink water, like warm water.

657
00:57:53,823.3822226 --> 00:57:56,253.3772226
Like, my husband is, obsessed with cooked water.

658
00:57:56,513.3762226 --> 00:57:57,383.3822226
Don't ask why.

659
00:57:57,783.3802226 --> 00:58:05,113.3812226
So he's already made the cooked water, so I'm usually drinking warm water with some date and ghee, and then I don't feel so guilty about drinking my coffee after.

660
00:58:05,513.3762226 --> 00:58:05,833.3762226
Right.

661
00:58:05,833.3762226 --> 00:58:07,413.3832226
You put a little something in there with it.

662
00:58:07,423.3832226 --> 00:58:08,513.3832226
That's- A little something yeah.

663
00:58:08,523.3832226 --> 00:58:08,743.3832226
Yep.

664
00:58:08,783.3802226 --> 00:58:08,973.3802226
Yeah.

665
00:58:08,973.3832226 --> 00:58:10,43.3802226
That's, that makes sense.

666
00:58:10,53.3772226 --> 00:58:10,73.3772226
Yeah.

667
00:58:10,403.3832226 --> 00:58:21,478.715556
How about your wind down routine? my wind down routine now, oh my God, for the first time in years and years and years is, I don't look at my electronics.

668
00:58:21,478.715556 --> 00:58:25,148.715556
So it's like in a different room for the last hour of the day.

669
00:58:25,148.715556 --> 00:58:27,958.715556
Like it's, you know, in the living room.

670
00:58:28,8.715556 --> 00:58:37,268.715556
And when we're in bed, I do a little, foot massage Which it's honestly, it's unbelievable how much it down regulates my nervous system.

671
00:58:37,288.714556 --> 00:58:38,298.715556
It's really crazy.

672
00:58:38,558.714556 --> 00:58:48,128.713556
I think five years ago if somebody had told me when I was struggling with sleep just to do a little foot massage and that that'll he- help you go to bed, I would've laughed at them.

673
00:58:48,188.715556 --> 00:58:51,988.712556
But the bang for buck is pretty in- incredible.

674
00:58:52,398.712556 --> 00:59:00,918.715556
So I have like a thylum called Pinda Thylum, which I picked up in, in India because it's for people who are like h- run hot and need some cooling down on the feet.

675
00:59:01,368.713556 --> 00:59:02,978.710556
and then, yeah, then I read.

676
00:59:02,998.711556 --> 00:59:08,348.715556
Right now I'm reading another, psychotherapy centered book.

677
00:59:08,788.715556 --> 00:59:13,818.716556
So I'm reading Marion Woodman's, book, called, The Ravaged Bridegroom.

678
00:59:14,298.713556 --> 00:59:14,678.710556
Great book.

679
00:59:14,688.710556 --> 00:59:14,698.710556
Mm.

680
00:59:14,778.710556 --> 00:59:27,642.0468893
Um, it's about, being able to figure out how to have masculine activating energy for somebody that has had kind of a toxic relationship to that in the past, you know? Ooh, love that topic.

681
00:59:27,642.0468893 --> 00:59:27,902.0468893
Yeah.

682
00:59:27,902.0468893 --> 00:59:28,622.0428893
Yeah.

683
00:59:28,622.0428893 --> 00:59:29,92.0428893
Yeah.

684
00:59:29,322.0468893 --> 00:59:29,722.0468893
Yeah.

685
00:59:29,732.0428893 --> 00:59:29,762.0478893
Mm-hmm.

686
00:59:29,772.0438893 --> 00:59:32,52.0448893
Because I'm trying to figure out how to activate without...

687
00:59:32,482.0428893 --> 00:59:33,552.0428893
Well, I don't wanna burn out again.

688
00:59:33,552.0428893 --> 00:59:36,342.0428893
I don't wanna find myself 15 years from now in the same seat, so.

689
00:59:36,692.0428893 --> 00:59:37,402.0428893
Absolutely.

690
00:59:37,452.0448893 --> 00:59:38,262.0428893
Yeah, I understand.

691
00:59:38,262.0428893 --> 00:59:38,512.0418893
Yeah.

692
00:59:38,512.0418893 --> 00:59:39,32.0468893
I love it.

693
00:59:39,62.0448893 --> 00:59:39,162.0448893
Yeah.

694
00:59:39,162.0448893 --> 00:59:39,582.0438893
I love it.

695
00:59:39,882.0448893 --> 00:59:44,952.0418893
And I love how intentional you're being about next steps or, the healing process.

696
00:59:45,722.0388893 --> 00:59:46,92.0388893
Yeah.

697
00:59:46,182.0378893 --> 00:59:48,742.0388893
So I appreciate you being here with us today.

698
00:59:48,752.0378893 --> 00:59:49,372.0398893
Thanks for your time.

699
00:59:49,372.0408893 --> 00:59:49,712.0408893
Yeah.

700
00:59:49,712.0448893 --> 00:59:53,715.3732226
And your, just your, your honesty and, and openness about your, life.

701
00:59:54,502.0438893 --> 00:59:56,42.0398893
Thanks for having me.

702
00:59:56,292.0448893 --> 00:59:57,52.0438893
I would not...

703
00:59:57,52.0438893 --> 01:00:00,182.0428893
I mean, it's also interesting because I'm a student at the moment.

704
01:00:00,282.0418893 --> 01:00:08,588.725556
I'm not out there making a difference, but I think it's kinda like turning on its head the concept that you need...

705
01:00:08,768.725556 --> 01:00:20,188.719556
For me, in my head, this is reprogramming my own conditioning a little bit, which is like, okay, you don't have to always be doing something out in the world to have a meaningful conversation that can change people who listen to it, you know, so, or impact people.

706
01:00:20,758.715556 --> 01:00:21,98.715556
Yeah.

707
01:00:21,248.720556 --> 01:00:22,188.713556
Amen- Yeah to that.

708
01:00:22,338.717556 --> 01:00:22,758.716556
I appreciate that.

709
01:00:22,758.716556 --> 01:00:23,158.715556
Yeah.

710
01:00:23,908.709556 --> 01:00:24,968.709556
Thanks for having me.